image description


Electronic drum kit fat channel settings
  Forum Index » House of Worship 
Author
Message
leroyhart
Prenoob

Joined: 09/03/2013 06:31:47
Messages: 3
Offline

Which of the stored fat channel settings would be best to use for an electronic drum kit. Our drummer is sending his entire kit to the board on one channel. And if there is no stored setting that would be the best compromise, what would you recommend for manually configuring the fat channel settings?
leroyhart
Prenoob

Joined: 09/03/2013 06:31:47
Messages: 3
Offline

Sorry, might help to know the board - StudioLive 24.4.2
gadget69
Presonificator
[Avatar]

Joined: 21/09/2010 03:56:19
Messages: 5008
Location: Northern Mn
Offline

I wouldn't think you'd need ANY fat channel treatment ... assuming your system sounds pretty decent and is relatively flat...Certainly no compression or dynamics...
NOTE: If your having an issue, open a tech support ticket and bring the number here if you want help!
http://support.presonus.com

Tools:
OHCI tool and Latency mon:
http://forums.presonus.com/posts/list/11348.page

We, the few, that have done so much, for so long that now we can do everyything with nothing

dbx forum moderator

Lenova Ideapad Z565
Best connectivity Express card/firewire 2 port (400) that does NOT suggest having the TI chipset. (always worked great)
BYTECC Express card (400/800)07150358281

Asus/AMD processor tower. This setups just works on all firewire devices.

Belkin N450 dual band router, works with SL and Ai mixers
Studiolive 16:4:2
SL Ai24.4.2
ABUSB 1818VSL
Faderport
USB pre interface
Studio one Pro V2
LABsubs

loads of audio, and studio gear, and audiophile sound gear (gearslut)
[Email] [Yahoo!]
leroyhart
Prenoob

Joined: 09/03/2013 06:31:47
Messages: 3
Offline

That was my initial thought also. But given the range and variety of stored presets for fat channels, and that some of those made a significant difference in sound for other channels (e.g. vocals), I was just wondering whether any specific settings might help our drum kit. For now it's flat, and it does sound pretty good. Thanks.
gadget69
Presonificator
[Avatar]

Joined: 21/09/2010 03:56:19
Messages: 5008
Location: Northern Mn
Offline

Ya but drum presets and samples are already optimized and processed...unlike anything you are micing...
NOTE: If your having an issue, open a tech support ticket and bring the number here if you want help!
http://support.presonus.com

Tools:
OHCI tool and Latency mon:
http://forums.presonus.com/posts/list/11348.page

We, the few, that have done so much, for so long that now we can do everyything with nothing

dbx forum moderator

Lenova Ideapad Z565
Best connectivity Express card/firewire 2 port (400) that does NOT suggest having the TI chipset. (always worked great)
BYTECC Express card (400/800)07150358281

Asus/AMD processor tower. This setups just works on all firewire devices.

Belkin N450 dual band router, works with SL and Ai mixers
Studiolive 16:4:2
SL Ai24.4.2
ABUSB 1818VSL
Faderport
USB pre interface
Studio one Pro V2
LABsubs

loads of audio, and studio gear, and audiophile sound gear (gearslut)
[Email] [Yahoo!]
SwitchBack
Presonoid
[Avatar]

Joined: 17/02/2011 01:10:03
Messages: 1428
Offline

You can treat the drum kit feed like a keyboard feed. By itself and without any treatment it will sound just fine. In a mix you can apply some EQ'ing to create space for vocalists and/or other instruments.

PS. Especially when you also plan to record the gig you should opt for a stereo feed from that drum kit.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 23/04/2013 22:39:40

after5cst
Prenoob

Joined: 24/10/2012 00:38:26
Messages: 33
Offline

We don't use any EQ on our edrum kit (Roland TD12, IIRC) for live work.

However, we do split up the output across a number of channels: in our case, we can route four channels. The best combination we've found is Kick / Toms / Cymbals / High Hat & Snare.

We found that being able to adjust the volume level of the components was essential to finding a mix that made sense in the house. YMMV.
Monolithent
Supreme Baconator
[Avatar]
Joined: 28/07/2010 18:47:25
Messages: 13464
Location: Central New Jersey
Offline

I am with after5 on this. If you can split them back out to the mixer then your sound guy can actually control the full mix and balance things on the fly where a simple stereo feed from the brainbox is very limited without a LOT of work ahead of time.

Even better would be to run a MIDI cable to your computer and keep the signal digital into a DAW or something along the lines of Superior Drummer. Then the gu at the board has full capability to make adjustments to anything.
http://support.presonus.com

Tallest guy in the Mod Squad with all his hair still on his head.

No I'm not a freaking pilot!! The Air Force won't let me have a suit with a zipper...or sometimes shoestrings.

My advice and suggestions should never be considered advice or suggestions. These are mostly insane ramblings of a poor aircraft mechanic who can, strangely enough, still hear.

StudioLive 16.4.2, AudioBox 1818VSL, AudioBox 44VSL, Faderport, Digimax FS,, M-Audio Firewire 410
--MultiBoot System--
Win Vista 64/XP Pro/7 x86/7 x64 - Mac OSX Snow Leopard/Lion
Gigabyte motherboard--SYBA TI Firewire XIO2200A--i7 2600k Quad Core--16 GB DDR III--Custom 2U Rackmount--4 TB Raid (all internal SATA II)--19" Samsung HDMI LCD on pivoting VESA 1U Mount
Studio One v1 Pro x64
Studio One v1 Artist
Studio One v2 Artist
[Yahoo!]
SwitchBack
Presonoid
[Avatar]

Joined: 17/02/2011 01:10:03
Messages: 1428
Offline

Agreed, more channels offers more flexibility. What I meant to say is that a (wide) stereo feed is the minimum for recording. The OP has the whole kit on a single channel.
adessmith
Prenoob

Joined: 31/03/2012 09:37:58
Messages: 90
Offline

As far as fat channel settings, I guess it depends on if you like the sound of the "patches" the drummer is using.
Think of it this way:
A professional engineer somewhere has dialed in these sounds already. They probably already have similar compression, eq, gate, etc... applied as what is available on the fat channel presets for each piece of the kit.
If you split it out where each piece of the drum kit came to you on an individual channel, and you applied fat channel presets to them, most likely you would be "doubling up" on some of the effects. Compressing a compressed sound, gating a gated sound, etc...

With that said, just because a pro engineer somewhere tweaked these sounds to what "they believe" is a good "generic sound" doesn't mean that it will sit in YOUR mix exactly like you want. If anything, you may want to make some tweaks with the EQ.
My guess is that, if you are using presets you aren't going to achieve much better than what is already being sent from the drums.
SwitchBack
Presonoid
[Avatar]

Joined: 17/02/2011 01:10:03
Messages: 1428
Offline

That's where I was coming from when I wrote "treat it like a keyboard". Much like a keyboard a drum kit covers the whole audible frequency range, including the frequencies where you want to make the singer or a guitar shine. Assuming that the presets that came with the electronic kit (preferably with effects disabled) yield a good solo sound, all that is needed is a little EQ'ing to make room for the money channels. And for effects it is better to use the SL effects (or a hardware/software insert) so that other instruments can share the same effect.
wratterus
Prenoob
[Avatar]

Joined: 26/04/2011 12:28:04
Messages: 9
Offline

after5cst wrote:We don't use any EQ on our edrum kit (Roland TD12, IIRC) for live work.

However, we do split up the output across a number of channels: in our case, we can route four channels. The best combination we've found is Kick / Toms / Cymbals / High Hat & Snare.

We found that being able to adjust the volume level of the components was essential to finding a mix that made sense in the house. YMMV.


How did you do this? We're running a TD-12 and the sound techs are always frustrated at their lack of control over it.

Thanks.
gadget69
Presonificator
[Avatar]

Joined: 21/09/2010 03:56:19
Messages: 5008
Location: Northern Mn
Offline

Well, I would assume that you can internally route the signals to the L/R mains and direct out 1/2...
NOTE: If your having an issue, open a tech support ticket and bring the number here if you want help!
http://support.presonus.com

Tools:
OHCI tool and Latency mon:
http://forums.presonus.com/posts/list/11348.page

We, the few, that have done so much, for so long that now we can do everyything with nothing

dbx forum moderator

Lenova Ideapad Z565
Best connectivity Express card/firewire 2 port (400) that does NOT suggest having the TI chipset. (always worked great)
BYTECC Express card (400/800)07150358281

Asus/AMD processor tower. This setups just works on all firewire devices.

Belkin N450 dual band router, works with SL and Ai mixers
Studiolive 16:4:2
SL Ai24.4.2
ABUSB 1818VSL
Faderport
USB pre interface
Studio one Pro V2
LABsubs

loads of audio, and studio gear, and audiophile sound gear (gearslut)
[Email] [Yahoo!]
TimmyP1955
Presonic
[Avatar]

Joined: 29/07/2010 08:42:15
Messages: 348
Location: Indianapolis
Offline

I find that presets don't address the problems that one has in live sound.

I also don't like the sound of electronic drums (though the cymbals are OK). It's not the electronic part, it's the kits that were sampled.

Just listen for what there's too much of, and dial it out, just as you would with real drums.
http://www.padrick.net/TP_Audio.htm
idle77
Prenoob

Joined: 14/02/2014 13:21:35
Messages: 11
Offline

I know I'm late to the party here but I play a td 20 module. Obviously if your able to use the direct outs along with the main outs it will help make things easier for the sound guy. However some church don't have enough open channels to go beyond a single mono channel for the whole kit. In this situation it's important for the drummer to "actively mix" the kit with the faders. Work with the sound guy on this. Also don't be afraid to use different kits. I use about 35 of the 50 available kits. For example some kits have the snare set a little further back in the mix while others are way up front. Several of my kits are the exact same except for the snare sound. It all depends on what song and what style you are playing. The td 30 went a step further and added a dedicated fader just for ambiance.
There are many good sounds/samples in these modules and the companies that make them spend a lot of resources getting vintage as well as currently trending sounds put in these modules. Other companies like http://www.vexpressionsltd.com/ further modify these sounds.
One thing TimmyP touched on is that the factory kits are geared toward sounding good by themselves so if you can split them out go for it.
 
Forum Index » House of Worship
Go to: