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Micing a 2x12 guitar cab
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NickWeiland
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id like some advice on micing a 2 x12 guitar cab the issue im having is i have a seinheiser e906 and i don seem to be able to capture the fullness of the guitar. it lacks depth and lower mid frequencies. id really like to capture the guitar as i hear it come out the amp. one of my teachers did suggest to open up the cabinet at the back and use a rbbon for warmth. has anyone tried this?
Computer: Asus Sabertooth x79 MOBO, 64 gb vengance Ram, 4gb windforce gigabyte Oc edition graphics card, processor: intel i7 3930 3.8 ghz 6 core, startech firewire card.
Laptop:Hp Pavilion Laptop G6 series amd 2.66 ghz quad core processor,256mb graphics card Ati,8 gb ddr3 ram,750gb Hybrid Drive;Audio Interface;Roland Octa-Capture,8 Mic pres,10 ins/outs, 44.1, 48, 98, 192 khz,Monitors:Adam a7xs,OS:Windows 7 Ultimate 64-Bit, Windows 8 Professional,Daw:Studio One Professional 64 bit version,Cubase 6.5,Plugins:Jbridge, Waves platinum bundle, Fabfilter bundleVst Instrumen,BFD2 64bit, Alchemy, East West Symphonic Orchestra.
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seamus mulligan
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Joined: 15/08/2012 06:06:47
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I just got through recording guitars for an album at our home studio.
Here are a few things that really helped us.
First off, record a DI signal so you can reamp if you need to. This is an invaluable tool for playing with tone.
Next, isolate the guitar cab from the control room so you can hear just the mic sound while you're playing.
We found that the placement of the mic in relation to the speaker had an enormous effect on the tone.
The mics we ended up with were the Cascade Fathead on one speaker and an old sure 545 on the other.
The fathead gave a ton of warmth and the sure captured the bite for leads and solos.
We also got some great tones out of an RE20 and an EV Raven.
The beauty of reamping is that you can record a whole pile of mic tracks and a/b them untill you're deaf or crazy.

Hope this helps.

Seamus Mulligan
AB1818VSL, Digiamx FS, S1 v2.07, Win7 32bit
Mytek Stereo96 ADC (clock source) & Stereo96 DAC


matthewgorman
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seamus mulligan wrote:I just got through recording guitars for an album at our home studio.
Here are a few things that really helped us.
First off, record a DI signal so you can reamp if you need to. This is an invaluable tool for playing with tone.
Next, isolate the guitar cab from the control room so you can hear just the mic sound while you're playing.
We found that the placement of the mic in relation to the speaker had an enormous effect on the tone.
The mics we ended up with were the Cascade Fathead on one speaker and an old sure 545 on the other.
The fathead gave a ton of warmth and the sure captured the bite for leads and solos.
We also got some great tones out of an RE20 and an EV Raven.
The beauty of reamping is that you can record a whole pile of mic tracks and a/b them untill you're deaf or crazy.

Hope this helps.



Excellent advice. I always record a DI dry signal too. when you do that, turn off monitoring on that track so it doesn't throw off the performer. Remember that a mic is not the same as an ear. You need to eq the amp until you hear what you want from the mic. I may be totally different than how it is set when performing.

Placing the mic on the edge of the speaker will give you a darker tone than micing the center of the speaker. If the cabinet is open back, then you can also try to mic the back of the cab. I have never done that, but many people have. A typical guitar track that I record has 3 actual tracks. 1 DI, one SM57, and 1 LD condenser/Ribbon mic. And I may very well track the same part 2-3 times. That will give you a fuller tone.
Matt

Lenovo Thinkpad E520, Windows 7 64bt, 8 GB RAM, Intel i5 Processor
StarTech EC13942 34mm Expresscard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16839158010&Tpk=startech%20EC13942
S1Pro V2 (Special Dog Balls Edition), Melodyne Editor, Nomad Factory Studio Bundle, Waves Renaissance Bundle, Firestudio Tube, Faderport, Monitor Station, HP4 Headphone Amp Yamaha HS50 Monitors.
Shure Mics (57's, 58's, and a 1953 Unidyne), Various AKG, Various MXL Ribbon Mics.

1974 P-Bass, 1990 Jazz, 1985 Guild B302, Ampeg SVT with 4x10x15 cabinet

http://soundcloud.com/stars_apart
NickWeiland
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how do you record a di at the same time?
Computer: Asus Sabertooth x79 MOBO, 64 gb vengance Ram, 4gb windforce gigabyte Oc edition graphics card, processor: intel i7 3930 3.8 ghz 6 core, startech firewire card.
Laptop:Hp Pavilion Laptop G6 series amd 2.66 ghz quad core processor,256mb graphics card Ati,8 gb ddr3 ram,750gb Hybrid Drive;Audio Interface;Roland Octa-Capture,8 Mic pres,10 ins/outs, 44.1, 48, 98, 192 khz,Monitors:Adam a7xs,OS:Windows 7 Ultimate 64-Bit, Windows 8 Professional,Daw:Studio One Professional 64 bit version,Cubase 6.5,Plugins:Jbridge, Waves platinum bundle, Fabfilter bundleVst Instrumen,BFD2 64bit, Alchemy, East West Symphonic Orchestra.
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matthewgorman
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Plug the guitar into the DI box. Then you can run a gtr cable from the di to your regular setup. Take a second XLR cable, and run that into your interface. Now you have split the signal.

When you set up a take, you now have an additional input from the DI. Set up a track, and select the input that has the xlr. When you press record, the blue monitor button will normally come on also. Turn that off, so that track is not coming back into the headphones. It can be pretty distracting to have a clean track coming through when you are recording a distorted type sound. Now you have a track of audio that is the equivalent of what is coming out of the guitar cable before it hits the amp. Now, if you want to fatten the sound, you can take that dry signal, and run that into any amp, any number of times. That is how you get a full layered sound.

Also, if you do wind up reamping the dry signal, experiment with offsetting the time to simulate different takes.
Matt

Lenovo Thinkpad E520, Windows 7 64bt, 8 GB RAM, Intel i5 Processor
StarTech EC13942 34mm Expresscard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16839158010&Tpk=startech%20EC13942
S1Pro V2 (Special Dog Balls Edition), Melodyne Editor, Nomad Factory Studio Bundle, Waves Renaissance Bundle, Firestudio Tube, Faderport, Monitor Station, HP4 Headphone Amp Yamaha HS50 Monitors.
Shure Mics (57's, 58's, and a 1953 Unidyne), Various AKG, Various MXL Ribbon Mics.

1974 P-Bass, 1990 Jazz, 1985 Guild B302, Ampeg SVT with 4x10x15 cabinet

http://soundcloud.com/stars_apart
NickWeiland
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matthewgorman wrote:Plug the guitar into the DI box. Then you can run a gtr cable from the di to your regular setup. Take a second XLR cable, and run that into your interface. Now you have split the signal.

When you set up a take, you now have an additional input from the DI. Set up a track, and select the input that has the xlr. When you press record, the blue monitor button will normally come on also. Turn that off, so that track is not coming back into the headphones. It can be pretty distracting to have a clean track coming through when you are recording a distorted type sound. Now you have a track of audio that is the equivalent of what is coming out of the guitar cable before it hits the amp. Now, if you want to fatten the sound, you can take that dry signal, and run that into any amp, any number of times. That is how you get a full layered sound.

Also, if you do wind up reamping the dry signal, experiment with offsetting the time to simulate different takes.


can you recommend a good di box please.
Computer: Asus Sabertooth x79 MOBO, 64 gb vengance Ram, 4gb windforce gigabyte Oc edition graphics card, processor: intel i7 3930 3.8 ghz 6 core, startech firewire card.
Laptop:Hp Pavilion Laptop G6 series amd 2.66 ghz quad core processor,256mb graphics card Ati,8 gb ddr3 ram,750gb Hybrid Drive;Audio Interface;Roland Octa-Capture,8 Mic pres,10 ins/outs, 44.1, 48, 98, 192 khz,Monitors:Adam a7xs,OS:Windows 7 Ultimate 64-Bit, Windows 8 Professional,Daw:Studio One Professional 64 bit version,Cubase 6.5,Plugins:Jbridge, Waves platinum bundle, Fabfilter bundleVst Instrumen,BFD2 64bit, Alchemy, East West Symphonic Orchestra.
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matthewgorman
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I have a Switchcraft. There are DI boxes that are cheaper. The Switchcraft has a Jensen Transformer which really has a great sound.
Matt

Lenovo Thinkpad E520, Windows 7 64bt, 8 GB RAM, Intel i5 Processor
StarTech EC13942 34mm Expresscard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16839158010&Tpk=startech%20EC13942
S1Pro V2 (Special Dog Balls Edition), Melodyne Editor, Nomad Factory Studio Bundle, Waves Renaissance Bundle, Firestudio Tube, Faderport, Monitor Station, HP4 Headphone Amp Yamaha HS50 Monitors.
Shure Mics (57's, 58's, and a 1953 Unidyne), Various AKG, Various MXL Ribbon Mics.

1974 P-Bass, 1990 Jazz, 1985 Guild B302, Ampeg SVT with 4x10x15 cabinet

http://soundcloud.com/stars_apart
NickWeiland
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Joined: 04/08/2012 20:33:05
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matthewgorman wrote:I have a Switchcraft. There are DI boxes that are cheaper. The Switchcraft has a Jensen Transformer which really has a great sound.


you wernt kidding!. £160 for a di box? is there any ones for a moderate price youd recommend?
Computer: Asus Sabertooth x79 MOBO, 64 gb vengance Ram, 4gb windforce gigabyte Oc edition graphics card, processor: intel i7 3930 3.8 ghz 6 core, startech firewire card.
Laptop:Hp Pavilion Laptop G6 series amd 2.66 ghz quad core processor,256mb graphics card Ati,8 gb ddr3 ram,750gb Hybrid Drive;Audio Interface;Roland Octa-Capture,8 Mic pres,10 ins/outs, 44.1, 48, 98, 192 khz,Monitors:Adam a7xs,OS:Windows 7 Ultimate 64-Bit, Windows 8 Professional,Daw:Studio One Professional 64 bit version,Cubase 6.5,Plugins:Jbridge, Waves platinum bundle, Fabfilter bundleVst Instrumen,BFD2 64bit, Alchemy, East West Symphonic Orchestra.
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matthewgorman
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Sorry, that's the only one I've used. There are definately cheaper ones out there. I've played through many different ones live, but wouldn't have the slightest idea how they would perform in the studio.
Matt

Lenovo Thinkpad E520, Windows 7 64bt, 8 GB RAM, Intel i5 Processor
StarTech EC13942 34mm Expresscard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16839158010&Tpk=startech%20EC13942
S1Pro V2 (Special Dog Balls Edition), Melodyne Editor, Nomad Factory Studio Bundle, Waves Renaissance Bundle, Firestudio Tube, Faderport, Monitor Station, HP4 Headphone Amp Yamaha HS50 Monitors.
Shure Mics (57's, 58's, and a 1953 Unidyne), Various AKG, Various MXL Ribbon Mics.

1974 P-Bass, 1990 Jazz, 1985 Guild B302, Ampeg SVT with 4x10x15 cabinet

http://soundcloud.com/stars_apart
NickWeiland
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Joined: 04/08/2012 20:33:05
Messages: 1050
Location: United Kingdom of Hypocracy
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seamus mulligan wrote:I just got through recording guitars for an album at our home studio.
Here are a few things that really helped us.
First off, record a DI signal so you can reamp if you need to. This is an invaluable tool for playing with tone.
Next, isolate the guitar cab from the control room so you can hear just the mic sound while you're playing.
We found that the placement of the mic in relation to the speaker had an enormous effect on the tone.
The mics we ended up with were the Cascade Fathead on one speaker and an old sure 545 on the other.
The fathead gave a ton of warmth and the sure captured the bite for leads and solos.
We also got some great tones out of an RE20 and an EV Raven.
The beauty of reamping is that you can record a whole pile of mic tracks and a/b them untill you're deaf or crazy.

Hope this helps.



i really would like to re amp but i only have the one amp. would you say re amping would be good if you just equed it differenty on the same amp. or for doing a clean sound with a distorted after affect?

also i dont have a control room its just bedroom recording stuff. so youd put one mic on each speaker then? my ears are telling me to put it on the left speaker. have you also tried the technique of micing up the open back of a cabinet with a ribbon?
Computer: Asus Sabertooth x79 MOBO, 64 gb vengance Ram, 4gb windforce gigabyte Oc edition graphics card, processor: intel i7 3930 3.8 ghz 6 core, startech firewire card.
Laptop:Hp Pavilion Laptop G6 series amd 2.66 ghz quad core processor,256mb graphics card Ati,8 gb ddr3 ram,750gb Hybrid Drive;Audio Interface;Roland Octa-Capture,8 Mic pres,10 ins/outs, 44.1, 48, 98, 192 khz,Monitors:Adam a7xs,OS:Windows 7 Ultimate 64-Bit, Windows 8 Professional,Daw:Studio One Professional 64 bit version,Cubase 6.5,Plugins:Jbridge, Waves platinum bundle, Fabfilter bundleVst Instrumen,BFD2 64bit, Alchemy, East West Symphonic Orchestra.
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cristofe
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for DI & re-amping........I always do it!

i really would like to re amp but i only have the one amp.


Re-amping doesn't have to happen with a guitar amp. You can also use hardware
and software ampsims.....this is what I usually do.....it's much quicker and easier
to audition different tones that way. Sims can sound a little weak on their own sometimes
but layered with a solid amp track you can get some really huge sounds.

PC'S: HP XW6000 Dual 3.2GHz Intel Xeon Processors, 8GB RAM WinXP SP2
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HP Compaq NC6320 Laptop Intel Core2Duo 2.0Ghz Processor 3GB RAM Win7 Ult
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Audio Interfaces: Terratec EWS88MT PCI (2), Audiobox 1818VSL USB & FP10 Firewire, Steinberg MI4 USB, Line 6 Toneport GX & PodXT, Roland GS-10, NI Rig Kontrol 3

Monitors: Yamaha HS50M's

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Hardware Synthesizers: Roland SH-32 & XV-3080 RedSound Darkstar XP2, Novation X-Station, Yamaha AN200, M-Audio Venom

Hardware Controllers: JL Cooper CS-10 Control Surface, Yamaha EZ-EG, Dillion Les Paul style acoustic electric guitar with Roland GK-3 pickup and GI-20 converter.

The Rest: Guitars, Amps, Stompboxes, Mics, Outboard Gear, VST plugins...too much to list!
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NickWeiland
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cristofe wrote: for DI & re-amping........I always do it!

i really would like to re amp but i only have the one amp.


Re-amping doesn't have to happen with a guitar amp. You can also use hardware
and software ampsims.....this is what I usually do.....it's much quicker and easier
to audition different tones that way. Sims can sound a little weak on their own sometimes
but layered with a solid amp track you can get some really huge sounds.


but isnt that just using a di and putting an amp sim on it its not re-amping.
Computer: Asus Sabertooth x79 MOBO, 64 gb vengance Ram, 4gb windforce gigabyte Oc edition graphics card, processor: intel i7 3930 3.8 ghz 6 core, startech firewire card.
Laptop:Hp Pavilion Laptop G6 series amd 2.66 ghz quad core processor,256mb graphics card Ati,8 gb ddr3 ram,750gb Hybrid Drive;Audio Interface;Roland Octa-Capture,8 Mic pres,10 ins/outs, 44.1, 48, 98, 192 khz,Monitors:Adam a7xs,OS:Windows 7 Ultimate 64-Bit, Windows 8 Professional,Daw:Studio One Professional 64 bit version,Cubase 6.5,Plugins:Jbridge, Waves platinum bundle, Fabfilter bundleVst Instrumen,BFD2 64bit, Alchemy, East West Symphonic Orchestra.
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thelulz
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Joined: 12/01/2013 19:54:50
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NickWeiland wrote:
matthewgorman wrote:I have a Switchcraft. There are DI boxes that are cheaper. The Switchcraft has a Jensen Transformer which really has a great sound.


you wernt kidding!. £160 for a di box? is there any ones for a moderate price youd recommend?


That depends, do you want a DI that's going to do the job correctly? Or one that turns your signal into a balanced mic-level signal?

There's lots of DIs, there is only one Radial JDI. Accept no imitations.

But in all fairness, for anything besides bass the Radial ProDIs are great. I have a stereo ProDI for organ that I use. If you have only one DI and don't need a stereo box, get the Radial JDI. You'll never be disappointed with it.
thelulz
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NickWeiland wrote:

but isnt that just using a di and putting an amp sim on it its not re-amping.


Sort of, it's the same principle as using emulated plug-in versions of hardware. Why discard the API 500 EQ sound, just because you don't have a physical hardware 500 EQ, when the plug-in version will come to 95% of the sound to an audiophile, 99.9% the sound to the majority of audio listeners.

It depends on how it sits in the mix, if a sans amp or any other amp sim works well in the mix, why go through the reamping process? Sometimes the most amazing guitar amp/cab sound won't translate through the mix like you thought it would, and some $50 plug-in amp will. Whatever works.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 21/02/2013 19:55:35

 
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