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Tempo track question
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koolhaas
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Joined: 05/08/2010 21:02:15
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hello everyone! i have been a Logic use for years and i am just starting a possible transition to S1, so please forgive some obvious questions and slang.... but what awesome piece of DAW S1 is!

would there be a way to make curve-based tempo transitions in the tempo track, similarly to Logic, which will constitute gradual tempo changes? it also seems there is no dedicated tempo or multiple event list, where events could be edited numerically, besides the transport, right?

tnx in advance!
ivo
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jonathan
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There is no MIDI list editor as in Logic, no.

To draw a gradual tempo change, use the Paint tool and hold Option to draw a line...it will be divided up into many tempo changes, rather than a curve. I hope we can deal with curves in the tempo track at some point, but for now that's the way it is.
Jonathan, Product Manager, PreSonus
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koolhaas
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jonathan, tnx for the quick reply! i was figuring out something in that direction...

perhaps this could be a legit wish for R&D, along with the MIDI event list, which may nicely open in the browser anyway. tnx again! it looks like we will definitely be transiting to S1 - the sound is terrific, the UI - very modern and intuitive, excellent mastering integration, etc, etc. i am exceptionally happy that a pro friend of mine turned me on to your DAW.

how are enhancement requests handled with S1 and what are the chances of getting those in? there are a few things in mind, coming from LS experience and struggle . btw, we have been beta-testing for years with 2 CAD and rendering software platforms, a bit different of course, but still similar large apps, so we have decent knowledge in the field.

tnx again!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 05/08/2010 23:19:10

ivo
architect, musician; paastudio
strictly Mac: MP 8-core, 18 GB RAM, 2 30" CD, MBP, MBA
koolhaas
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a couple more novice work flow questions, if i may...

1. i'm going through the manual back and forth and cannot seem to locate any sample editor. perhaps i'm missing something, but what is the way of changing gain directly into the audio file (recoded or bounced in place from a software instrument). what is the way of manipulating such, besides envelope only? cannot find this capability in the audio editor so far...

2. is there a 'folder' concept in S1? from what we have derived as work routine in LS when working with software instruments, once the track is bounced to audio, it is quite handy to put all MIDI tracks in a folder. this way they don't clutter arrangement and mixer. in S1 one can hide channels very handily from the mixer, but how in arrange? in general - any folders or similar?

3. FX channels have no 'send', only to main out... this may be a bit of a handicap for some mixer configurations. what would be the design intend?

4. is there a way to move automation by line, besides by points? i.e. in LS one can grab the line between 2 points and move up/dn/side, which also moves the 2 end points. IMHO, this is far handier, that adjusting the points 1 by 1... hopefully, R&D will consider real curves in the very near future for automation and tempo - a real necessity for easier manipulation.

more silly questions to follow perhaps - please, excuse... tnx in advance!
ivo
architect, musician; paastudio
strictly Mac: MP 8-core, 18 GB RAM, 2 30" CD, MBP, MBA
AudioCave
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koolhaas wrote:a couple more novice work flow questions, if i may...

1. i'm going through the manual back and forth and cannot seem to locate any sample editor. perhaps i'm missing something, but what is the way of changing gain directly into the audio file (recoded or bounced in place from a software instrument). what is the way of manipulating such, besides envelope only? cannot find this capability in the audio editor so far...


The only thing close to an editor is the audio editor in the docker when you double-click on an event. There are some things that happen in some other hosts - audio editing wise - that aren't possible here yet so... we kinda have to wait for them. Aside from the gain envelope you can normalize events but of course that's not what you mean. For general gain adjustments, splitting and using the event envelopes seems to be the best way.

2. is there a 'folder' concept in S1?


No folders yet but if I were to hazard a guess I would say it's easily the #1 requested FR or all time.

3. FX channels have no 'send', only to main out... this may be a bit of a handicap for some mixer configurations. what would be the design intend?


No sends on FX channels so currently if you want to send an FX to another FX, use a group channel as the first "FX bus". As to the initial design I would guess that the early design follows analog (and even many digital) consoles where FX returns don't really have sends. DAW's have of course broken all of those rules and changed all of those expectations.

4. is there a way to move automation by line, besides by points? i.e. in LS one can grab the line between 2 points and move up/dn/side, which also moves the 2 end points.


You can do that with the automation transformer but no, not directly on the envelope line like with some other software like PT. But the transformer works well for those kinds of adjustments with the current caveat that it doesn't display the actual gain levels while doing it.

more silly questions to follow perhaps - please, excuse... tnx in advance!


No such thing as a silly question imo.
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koolhaas
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cave dude - tnx so much! from a few days tests and manual digging so far it looks that our current LogicS platform is quite more capable in editing... (the shelf price difference is only $50... don't quite understand the exact justification ) nevertheless, 32-bit depth sounds awesome in our 'focal' speakers! it is visibly faster than LS, 64-bit processing without the nasty 32-bit bridge, built in mastering... it adds up, nevertheless, editing... (the CTR/OPT+mouse input zoom in LS is a breeze).

perhaps starting up a song in logic, bouncing everything and mixing in S1 would be temp solution, bit is was just trying to avoid jumping up and down platforms. i love the idea of having the mastering file updated every time you touch up the mix - but S1 seems to need some polishing of the initial project stage, comparative to LS. not to mention, that in the project, one has no option (or at least i did not see one) to bounce portions - i.e. if you have an album lined up and you want to publish only one of the songs.

i was asking yesterday jonathan, the PM, how good are R&D in responding and implementing requests... obviously, this is a very new platform, nevertheless, what is your experience? how long is the folder wait so far? tnx, again!
ivo
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jonathan
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We watch the forums closely, and read everything here. Other users can comment on our speed of implementation, but in general, when a new request pops up, it goes in our system immediately...we have to prioritize, of course, but if we see an opportunity to easily accomplish what is being asked for, the request will show up in the next release (we release relatively often).

The 'larger'/more complex requests (ie; folder tracks), that are interrelated to other functions, etc...those take more time, and you can expect to see many of these in v2.0, but likely not before then.

I would argue we are one of the most receptive and pro-active DAWs, with our developers regularly participating in these forums directly, and this, among other things, will result in more frequent and useful updates (as well as bug fixes)...all in all, we aim to have the most stable and useful DAW ever.
Jonathan, Product Manager, PreSonus
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db
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I think I would agree with AudioCave on folder tracks. It's a really hot FR. I would say it has to surely be a 99% certainty for S1 by the time v.2 is announced.

Looking at the features added to previous releases I think PreSonus are extremely responsive to user FR's.
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sunmachine
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Here's the amazing release table made by our prophet Lawrence/AudioCave
(see this thread and also this one)


MacBook Pro 2.4 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo | 4 GB RAM | Mac OS X 10.6 | Studio One 2 Professional, 32 Bit
Sonic Core SCOPE | Pentium 4, 2.4 GHz | Windows XP@8 GB Compact Flash Card
tc electronic Impact Twin | novation Remote 61SL Mk II

Get 5 GB free GOBBLER space in the cloud for your DAW projects! For Mac and PC
[WWW]
koolhaas
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jonathan wrote:We watch the forums closely, and read everything here. ...all in all, we aim to have the most stable and useful DAW ever.


rightfully so, sir! tnx again - and it looks like you are going in the right direction.

as i was saying above, i am still weighing options - we have been trying out S1 for the last week and comparing it to LS with ~ 3 year experience. obviously, it takes time to adjust and the sound is awesome, but some important daily things are perhaps still under development. so my simple math goes like - if we buy now and still cannot fully transfer LS editing to S1, we are facing another upgrade fee in a few months, which will bring the total, even with a cross-grade discount to a full retail LS license... still debating...

any suggestions? tnx!
ivo
architect, musician; paastudio
strictly Mac: MP 8-core, 18 GB RAM, 2 30" CD, MBP, MBA
AudioCave
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koolhaas wrote:any suggestions? tnx!


I'm about as big an S1 "fanboy" (erhm...'supporter' ) as you'll find anywhere but the reality is that if you personally need a higher level of editing than is currently available in Studio One, and that's critical, then you need to serve your needs by using what best fits your needs. If you need Logic's more detailed editing to do the work that's in your immediate future then you need to go with Logic.

I would say if anyone at PreSonus told you anything differently, that would be dishonest and I haven't seen any hint of dishonesty from these guys. No DAW software is going to be the best application for everyone and they all were at stages at one time or another where they didn't quite fill the needs of certain users.

Use whatever you need to use to get paid. If that's Logic, re-visit Studio One later.
Win 7 Desktop: I7 860 | 2.8 ghz | 8 gb ram | W7 Home Premium 64
The Audio Cave Website

Studio One Pro • Mackie d8b • Dynaudio BM5a's • M-Audio Audiophile AV30's • KRok Rokit 10s Sub • MOTU 2408 MK3 • Lavry Blue / Black ADA • AT 4050/CM5 • MXL V69 ME • Rode NTK • Oktava MC-012's • Shure Beta 52 • SM57's • Grace M101 • DBX 576 • Summit Audio TLA 50 • Art Pro VLA • Art Tube Pres • PreSonus DigiMax LT • Sony MDR 7506's • PreSonus ACP 88 • Behringer ADA 8000 • Firestudio Mobile • Altiverb 5 • Kontakt 4 - BFD / EZD • Roland D5 • Fender Jazz Bass
sdrr00
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jonathan wrote:We watch the forums closely, and read everything here. Other users can comment on our speed of implementation, but in general, when a new request pops up, it goes in our system immediately...we have to prioritize, of course, but if we see an opportunity to easily accomplish what is being asked for, the request will show up in the next release (we release relatively often).

The 'larger'/more complex requests (ie; folder tracks), that are interrelated to other functions, etc...those take more time, and you can expect to see many of these in v2.0, but likely not before then.

I would argue we are one of the most receptive and pro-active DAWs, with our developers regularly participating in these forums directly, and this, among other things, will result in more frequent and useful updates (as well as bug fixes)...all in all, we aim to have the most stable and useful DAW ever.


No need to argue! You guys show it in practice, anyone who says otherwise just either hasn't experienced PreSonus' level of dedication and care for S1 or is one of those people that wont settle for less than instant-gratification. My only wish is that you guys continue this level of dedication and support from day 1, even when you guys truly make it big. Cant say thank you enough for bringing us this awesome DAW!
koolhaas
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tnx for all replies - S1 is surely a wonderful newcomer! it also looks like R&D is quite responsive and on top of things as well. perhaps we will become avid S1 supporters too shortly (as we have done with a few other hip apps ). we also hope that PS will remain cool at the top .

i just compared the mastered result of a song done in logic/wave editor (the bounced 24-bit file was imported in WE, converted to 32-bit and had the same plugin chain, as applied in the S1 project). the S1 file was mixed with the same audio stems from logic, using more S1 plugins, than the ones used in LS. (obviously, it had to remixed and levels re-adjusted, but the intent was similar).

to my ears the S1 master sounded arguably more articulate, natural and 3D. which is great! and adjusting sliders throughout with the mouse wheel is a jaw-dropping achievement, to the envy of numerous other apps!

nevertheless, i sincerely hope, that PS is looking into prompt competitive additions, which look to an S1 novice a bit like odd oversights - a real audio editor, as well as MIDI lists, better zoom and automation handling (the idea of having multiple paint tools is wonderful - and we are very familiar with visual arts, however, curves resulting in dots is a bit lame; if this handles midi wheel recording - sure, but manually - no; moving a line by the 2 end dots separately - not a good concept either, perhaps inherited from nuendo or so; again - S1 is only $50 below the establishment).

coupe more questions:

1. what is the way to view multiple MIDI events on multiple tracks at the same time? i.e. one usually would like to compare SW instruments, such as bass and rums for instance.... logic shows all notes when MIDI regions are selected with the option of distinguishing regions by color. is there a similar concept in S1? (eventually velocity colors may also be helpful here too, as well as darker piano roll background and C to E a tad darker striping).

2. it seems S1 dithers directly (32 to 16-bit or similar), or has the option of disabling dithering in preferences. the triangular algorithm sounds great - nevertheless, any other methods or suggestions? (other DAWs offer more options)

3. any S1 effects for stereo spread, or a spreader, pitch correction, vocal transformer?

tnx in advance!
ivo
architect, musician; paastudio
strictly Mac: MP 8-core, 18 GB RAM, 2 30" CD, MBP, MBA
AudioCave
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1. You can't currently.

2. Disable the internal dither and use any dither plug you prefer.

3. Binaural Pan is a stereo spread FX. No vocal transformer.
Win 7 Desktop: I7 860 | 2.8 ghz | 8 gb ram | W7 Home Premium 64
The Audio Cave Website

Studio One Pro • Mackie d8b • Dynaudio BM5a's • M-Audio Audiophile AV30's • KRok Rokit 10s Sub • MOTU 2408 MK3 • Lavry Blue / Black ADA • AT 4050/CM5 • MXL V69 ME • Rode NTK • Oktava MC-012's • Shure Beta 52 • SM57's • Grace M101 • DBX 576 • Summit Audio TLA 50 • Art Pro VLA • Art Tube Pres • PreSonus DigiMax LT • Sony MDR 7506's • PreSonus ACP 88 • Behringer ADA 8000 • Firestudio Mobile • Altiverb 5 • Kontakt 4 - BFD / EZD • Roland D5 • Fender Jazz Bass
mixus
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koolhaas wrote:
...what is the way of changing gain directly into the audio file (recoded or bounced in place from a software instrument). what is the way of manipulating such, besides envelope only? cannot find this capability in the audio editor so far...


If you place your mouse cursor at the top middle of an event (region) you'll see a little square. You can raise or lower it, and it non-destructively adjusts the volume for just that region. Very handy.

BTW, I was a Logic user since version 4.x, and love S1. It's like a breath of fresh air, really.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 07/08/2010 15:35:04

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