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buffer size effect on VSL vs Studio One on Windows
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petergaultney
Prenoob

Joined: 15/01/2012 05:27:01
Messages: 5
Location: Knoxville, TN
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I have a thousand questions since starting to play with my 1818VSL this week, but perhaps a couple of technical questions will answer a whole bunch of surface ones? I'm a computer scientist, so, for what it's worth, those are my credentials/chance of understanding a technical answer.

On my Mac, I can adjust the ASIO buffer size (called the Device Block Size in Studio One) in either VSL or Studio One. On my Windows machine, I cannot adjust it in Studio One at all, but must fire up VSL to perform that adjustment. Why the limitation on Windows? Relatedly, why is there an option for 64-bit Process Precision on the Mac, but not on my Windows machine, which is running the 64 bit version of Studio One on top of 64 bit Windows 7?

I'm even more curious about the next issue. I can listen to a very low-latency (i.e. the latency is imperceptible) mix of myself singing (into channel one, out through the headphone jack) when VSL is turned on. This latency does not seem to be affected by my choice of ASIO buffer size (ranging all the way from 2048 down to 32). The VSL is, in fact, adding the desired effects (Compression, EQ, Noise Gate, etc.).
However, If I turn VSL off, Studio One then takes control, and my ability to perceive the latency depends very clearly on the Device Block Size that Studio One is reporting (remember, I am unable to adjust it within Studio One). I can't get my buffer size below 256 without horrendous garbling, and I still seem to get occasional pops and clicks even with larger buffer sizes. What is actually going on here under the surface? Why in the world does VSL seem to offer such amazing, low-latency monitoring regardless of my buffer size, while Studio One is so obviously dependent on that buffer size for its monitoring latency (and also so borderline in its actual ability to approach imperceptible latency without adding artifacts to the sound)?

Lest I sound too trollish, I am more and more pleased with my first professional audio setup the better acquainted with it I get. This is clearly leaps and bounds better and more powerful than what I'm used to. But I still haven't successfully recorded an entire track without artifacts while live monitoring, and I sure would like to get to that point soon.

Help is greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Peter


My machine:
Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
Intel Core i7 920 @2.67 GHz (8 logical cores)
6GB DDR3 RAM (matched sets)

P.S. My MacBook Air is the other system mentioned - it's one of the new ones (fall 2011), and it actually seems to work better than the PC in some regards (buffer sizes down to 128 work consistently, for instance), but it's far from ideal as a recording workstation.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 20/01/2012 07:42:48

Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
Intel Core i7 920 @ 2.67 GHz (8 logical cores)
6GB DDR3 RAM
NVIDIA GTX 260
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xzb6np
Presonic

Joined: 28/07/2010 16:13:24
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I have an answer for you. If you look in the manual that is on the install CD or you look in other forums, Bob from Presonus explained it. The ASIO buffer size only affects the USB connection between the computer and the 1818. When you sing thru the 1818 with VSL enabled it is not going to the computer and back. You are hearing it right out of the box. When you turn of the VSL software you are then singing into the box, routing into the computer to S! and then back out to the box and into the headphones. That that point you are experiencing latency that is affected by the ASIO setting.

The ah ha moment is when you realize that the purpose of the new boxes is to totally avoid the need to monitor thru the computer via S1 or other DAW. You now can monitor directly in hardware with basically no latency! At the same time you can use whatever buffersize you need to make your computer happy as it records. That's good stuff!

Last year when the Gospel Trio recorded that my wife sings in I had to setup cue mixes in S1 for them to monitor each other so there was latency introduced. Fortuanately I have a pretty fast computer so I could run lower buffers sizes and they didn't notice the latency, but now that I have the 1818 (had a firestudio tube last year) I can give them direct monitor mixes thru the hardware!



Thanks
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Athlon II X4 635, 4 gig ram, Windows 7 32-bit, S1 Pro V2, Audio Boxes vsl 1818 & 44, Shure Beta 87A, SE X1.
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petergaultney
Prenoob

Joined: 15/01/2012 05:27:01
Messages: 5
Location: Knoxville, TN
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Aha... that does answer one of my questions! Thanks! Though your last bit about recording a gospel trio confuses me... even with the 1818VSL, it's not actually possible to have the in-box monitoring while ALSO recording in Studio One, right? My experience so far definitely suggests that once you start using Studio One, the in-box monitoring suddenly seems to turn off....
Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
Intel Core i7 920 @ 2.67 GHz (8 logical cores)
6GB DDR3 RAM
NVIDIA GTX 260
[WWW]
xzb6np
Presonic

Joined: 28/07/2010 16:13:24
Messages: 312
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petergaultney wrote:Aha... that does answer one of my questions! Thanks! Though your last bit about recording a gospel trio confuses me... even with the 1818VSL, it's not actually possible to have the in-box monitoring while ALSO recording in Studio One, right? My experience so far definitely suggests that once you start using Studio One, the in-box monitoring suddenly seems to turn off....



The recording of the audio and the in box monitoring are two separate things. All the inputs are being sent to the computer but at the same time the box is routing them to the outputs for monitoring. Now if you start using effects in the VSL software then the effects are processed in the computer using some sort of kernel level processing that is extremely low latency and sent back to the box to be mixed in with the outputs. In that case the would be some latency introduced but it is extremely small. That is where the normal, safe and fastest setting come in I believe.

Its all on page 17 of the full manual on the install disk that came with the box. Also if you look the the forum you will see where the PreSonus folks are talking about it. Rick and Bob give the details.

Thanks
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Athlon II X4 635, 4 gig ram, Windows 7 32-bit, S1 Pro V2, Audio Boxes vsl 1818 & 44, Shure Beta 87A, SE X1.
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themuzic
Baconator
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Joined: 17/04/2010 05:42:47
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Location: Wheeling IL (North Chicago Suburbs)
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Hey Peter, totally OT here but I'm curious. Did you ever live in the North Burbs of Chicago?

http://www.homestudiotrainer.webs.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/themuzic
Email - homestudiotrainer@yahoo.com
Skype - themuzic
Phone - 773-303-7260
I offer FREE assistance for Studio One (any version) and Presonus hardware, to anyone having issues or anyone who simply wants to learn

Gateway Tower - Intel Core i5 3330 CPU 3GHz 8GB Ram and 64bit Windows 8
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petergaultney
Prenoob

Joined: 15/01/2012 05:27:01
Messages: 5
Location: Knoxville, TN
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themuzic wrote:
Hey Peter, totally OT here but I'm curious. Did you ever live in the North Burbs of Chicago?


Sorry to disappoint, but no. Closest I've lived was about halfway between Indianapolis and Chicago, but I was pretty young at the time. I take it you had some slight suspicion that we might have previously met?
Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
Intel Core i7 920 @ 2.67 GHz (8 logical cores)
6GB DDR3 RAM
NVIDIA GTX 260
[WWW]
themuzic
Baconator
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Joined: 17/04/2010 05:42:47
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Location: Wheeling IL (North Chicago Suburbs)
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petergaultney wrote:
themuzic wrote:
Hey Peter, totally OT here but I'm curious. Did you ever live in the North Burbs of Chicago?


Sorry to disappoint, but no. Closest I've lived was about halfway between Indianapolis and Chicago, but I was pretty young at the time. I take it you had some slight suspicion that we might have previously met?


Yeah, I went to middle school with a Peter Gualtney....lol

http://www.homestudiotrainer.webs.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/themuzic
Email - homestudiotrainer@yahoo.com
Skype - themuzic
Phone - 773-303-7260
I offer FREE assistance for Studio One (any version) and Presonus hardware, to anyone having issues or anyone who simply wants to learn

Gateway Tower - Intel Core i5 3330 CPU 3GHz 8GB Ram and 64bit Windows 8
[Email] [WWW] [Yahoo!]
dough334
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Joined: 14/06/2014 18:46:52
Messages: 1
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How do I find the buffer size I was trying to use the melodyne but it say that my buffer size to be certain amount I need help
themuzic
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Joined: 17/04/2010 05:42:47
Messages: 8703
Location: Wheeling IL (North Chicago Suburbs)
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dough334 wrote:How do I find the buffer size I was trying to use the melodyne but it say that my buffer size to be certain amount I need help


The error you get in melodyne for the buffer size can be ignored. It has no actual effect on performance. Don't change it. Celamony is working on the issue.

http://www.homestudiotrainer.webs.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/themuzic
Email - homestudiotrainer@yahoo.com
Skype - themuzic
Phone - 773-303-7260
I offer FREE assistance for Studio One (any version) and Presonus hardware, to anyone having issues or anyone who simply wants to learn

Gateway Tower - Intel Core i5 3330 CPU 3GHz 8GB Ram and 64bit Windows 8
[Email] [WWW] [Yahoo!]
 
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