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FR: Freehand Track Level Gain Envelope Drawing (2011)
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Kiwicomposer
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Hi..

I am aware that Audio region (or clip) events can have their gain adjusted by pulling down the handle in the center of the region. That is cool.. But this means all of the selected region/event has the gain adjustment done all the same. I also understand that fade in and fade out can be done at each end of the region/event.

What I would like to see is for the gain to be "drawable" using the drawing tool so that it can be adjusted and different throughout the region/event (just like you can do in automation) . Sometimes just a word or note or something pops and you want to just change that or maybe a small section of a vocal needs adjustment but not the complete vocal.

I have had issues where a vocalist cant stand still when tracking a vocal and they get annoying volume increases in the actual audio file. The performance quality and energy etc is brilliant just the fluctuating volume is annoying. I would like to be able to adjust that at track level as a "clean up" operations.

Now I know automation can be used as well but I would like to do the adjustment pre-fader at the audio event level rather than as an automation event.

BTW I know I could also do this in Melodyne but doing it the event gain would also be a cool and helpful idea.

So please enhance the gain adjustment to allow the gain line to be drawn!

Steve

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 24/04/2014 18:07:55

Steve Currington
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Wellington, New Zealand
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Primary Hardware: Presonus Studio One v2.6.2, Presonus Audiobox1818vsl, Presonus Audiobox USB, Presonus Faderport, Focusrite Liquid Saffire 56, MOTU Traveler Mk3, TC-Helicon VoiceworksPlus, FMR RNC, FMR RNLA, Axiom Pro 49 Keyboard, other sundry hardware, numerous mics, audio plugins and instruments.
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Motoko
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Kiwicomposer wrote:Hi..

I am aware that Audio region (or clip) events can have their gain adjusted by pulling down the handle in the center of the region. That is cool.. But this means all of the selected region/event has the gain adjustment done all the same. I also understand that fade in and fade out can be done at each end of the region/event.

What I would like to see is for the gain to be "drawable" using the drawing tool so that it can be adjusted and different throughout the region/event (just like you can do in automation) . Sometimes just a word or note or something pops and you want to just change that or maybe a small section of a vocal needs adjustment but not the complete vocal.

I have had issues where a vocalist cant stand still when tracking a vocal and they get annoying volume increases in the actual audio file. The performance quality and energy etc is brilliant just the fluctuating volume is annoying. I would like to be able to adjust that at track level as a "clean up" operations.

Now I know automation can be used as well but I would like to do the adjustment pre-fader at the audio event level rather than as an automation event.

BTW I know I could also do this in Melodyne but doing it the event gain would also be a cool and helpful idea.

So please enhance the gain adjustment to allow the gain line to be drawn!

Steve


I'm not sure I see the advantage of a gain line draw vs. automation. Also if you have a long audio clip (let's say five minutes) why not isolate that phrase in it's own even and lower the clip gain for that small event?
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Kiwicomposer
Presonic
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I generally prefer to use automation after I have added all the FX etc and then use it to do a final adjustment to things. Doing so at the event level earlier cleans up the track so I get a better or "cleaner "start" point etc. I guess all about cleaning up the track before the mix.

Yep could snip up the event into smaller ones and do it that way but drawing it would just save time etc.

Just an opinion.. Also just the way I like or would like to work.

Other DAWS have various methods of adjusting the gain and some better than others or easier to use than others. Actually Protools 10 just introduced it (bit late in the game really but wont go into slagging other DAWS!!) and I like the way that works. If you haven't check the AVID Video of how they do it.. Quite nice really.

Steve
Steve Currington
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riddim
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In the meantime, can't you just draw in the changes on an automation track and then bounce it down? That way you'd have your cleaner starting point and still be able to start with a blank automation track later on in the mix.

I know it involves a few extra steps and makes it more of a hassle if you change your mind later in the mixing process, but as far as workarounds go this one seems quite convenient to me.

edit: Alternatively you could add a mixtool at the start of your FX-chain for a separate automation track that you won't have to deal with later on unless you want to. If you hide the automation track, the only visual clutter would be an extra plugin at the start of your FX-chain.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 02/12/2011 18:21:57

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LMike
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You could also use the Mix Tool as the very first plug on the track and expose it's envelope to do something similar. Not quite as convenient as having a secondary fully editable clip based gain envelope a-la-Cubendo but it would work much the same way without having to engage fader automation and without bouncing anything.

That was (IIRC) the method used in PT before they got the editable envelope.
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Kiwicomposer
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All good ideas & workarounds for now. Thanks for responding.
But as a future request an "editable" gain would be a really nice feature I think.
So my feature request stands as a valid request and one that would make Studio One more powerful..

I assume you don't think it is a bad idea just one that the current release has alternative, albeit maybe more time consuming, workarounds.

Steve

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 03/12/2011 12:47:49

Steve Currington
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Wellington, New Zealand
Twitter: @kiwicomposer
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Primary Hardware: Presonus Studio One v2.6.2, Presonus Audiobox1818vsl, Presonus Audiobox USB, Presonus Faderport, Focusrite Liquid Saffire 56, MOTU Traveler Mk3, TC-Helicon VoiceworksPlus, FMR RNC, FMR RNLA, Axiom Pro 49 Keyboard, other sundry hardware, numerous mics, audio plugins and instruments.
Primary Software: Sibelius v7.x, Notion v4.x, Logic Studio. V9.x., Melodyne Editor.

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riddim
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Kiwicomposer wrote:
I assume you don't think it is a bad idea just one that the current release has alternative, albeit maybe more time consuming, workarounds.


Yeah this sums up how I feel about it. I meant to point out that I still think it's a good feature request in my earlier post but I must've forgotten it when re-writing a sentence or something.
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Kiwicomposer
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Cool thanks.

Yeah Studio One is "marketed" as being a product where things get done quick efficiently and in one or two mouse clicks etc..

Well I think this request fits into that category I think. Ala quicker and more efficient. (maybe anyway) .

Steve
ps.. Subject Title Adjusted

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 04/12/2011 19:47:43

Steve Currington
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Wellington, New Zealand
Twitter: @kiwicomposer
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Primary Hardware: Presonus Studio One v2.6.2, Presonus Audiobox1818vsl, Presonus Audiobox USB, Presonus Faderport, Focusrite Liquid Saffire 56, MOTU Traveler Mk3, TC-Helicon VoiceworksPlus, FMR RNC, FMR RNLA, Axiom Pro 49 Keyboard, other sundry hardware, numerous mics, audio plugins and instruments.
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LMike
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Kiwicomposer wrote:
I assume you don't think it is a bad idea just one that the current release has alternative, albeit maybe more time consuming, workarounds.


Not a bad idea by any stretch imo. Anyone coming from Cubase who used it will probably eventually ask for it. I think I did about a year ago. I'd personally (mmv) like to see some little stuff like that before the next round of big "producer" based FR's but I assume if we hang around long enough we'll eventually get most of it anyway.

If they do it I hope they improve on it by making it pretty much exactly like automation envelopes. With Cubase's clip envelopes you can't move "lines", only nodes... but the waveform drawing sizes accordingly which is handy. PT has a really nice twist on their version of it, I think you can "coalesce" the editable clip envelope to automation and/or vice versa.

Maybe the gang here can take it a step or two beyond all that sometime later down the path.
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Kiwicomposer
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Yep PT10 Clip Gain feature is nice. And yep there may be additional improvement that the clever folks at Presonus can add but I would be happy with something similar.

Steve
Steve Currington
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dgkenney
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Another technique is to use the transform tool to even out soft or loud portions of the take and then bounce before adding fxs or overall automation.

Just a thought.

Dan
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kreeper_6
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for editing gain envelopes.
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Kiwicomposer
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As per various recommendations.. I have been trying various ways to do this style of thing without the ability of "freehand " drawing etc.and although some methods work it is long winded and basically annoying. There has to be a better way and being able draw the gain envelope like other systems within S1 would sure make life easier and way way quicker and more efficient.

Steve Currington
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Wellington, New Zealand
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Primary Hardware: Presonus Studio One v2.6.2, Presonus Audiobox1818vsl, Presonus Audiobox USB, Presonus Faderport, Focusrite Liquid Saffire 56, MOTU Traveler Mk3, TC-Helicon VoiceworksPlus, FMR RNC, FMR RNLA, Axiom Pro 49 Keyboard, other sundry hardware, numerous mics, audio plugins and instruments.
Primary Software: Sibelius v7.x, Notion v4.x, Logic Studio. V9.x., Melodyne Editor.

Running on iMac's and MacBookAir with OSX 10.9.x Mavericks

Kiwicomposer
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I am still keen to see this request.
PING

Just a reminder!!
Steve Currington
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Scoox
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Motoko wrote:I'm not sure I see the advantage of a gain line draw vs. automation. Also if you have a long audio clip (let's say five minutes) why not isolate that phrase in it's own even and lower the clip gain for that small event?


I know it's an old post but man, some times I am surprised how un-constructive some of your replies can be, especially for a user with thousands of posts under the belt. Gain envelopes, as opposed to level fader automation, are two completely different things. I suggest you check out the way this works in Reaper and FL Studio.

In short, if you automate the level fader you won't be able to lower the overall level of the track by pulling the fader down, because the moment you do that you disengage automation. We could also do with pitch envelopes, again also available in Reaper and FL Studio.

Furthermore, in Reaper the amplitude of audio event waveforms will change to reflect the effect of the gain envelope as you draw it, which provides very useful instant visual feedback. I cannot stress enough how useful this feature is. FL Studio lacks the visual feedback so it's essentially the same as inserting Mixtool into your track and automating that instead of the fader, which is what I currently do in S1.

from me

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 18/04/2014 05:10:36

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My feature wish list:
1. Automation clips
2. Ability to (optionally) undo everything, inc. plugin and mixer knob/fader/buttons, add/remove insert, add/remove plugin, etc...
3. Mixer snapshots
4. Wraparound slide audio items like in Reaper
 
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