image description


Live recording completely ruined by Studiolive 16
  Forum Index » StudioLive General Discussion 
Author
Message
bjornson
Prenoob

Joined: 09/09/2010 01:14:07
Messages: 7
Offline

rnaqvi wrote:Please let me know the order of which you had the board, computer and drive chained.

SUT on the show was Studiolive-Macbook-Drive. I have since tested it with the drive in the middle of the chain with the same results.
I multed low level 30fps non-drop time code to all the inputs of the SL, recorded it, and drove my Euphonix 727 reader with each tracks output.
On average, each track dropped TC 1-3 times per minute for a duration between .5 and 2 seconds.
No track was recorded faithfully.
I'm on NFL / NHL shows for the next 10 days, but I'll try to have an employee repeat this test with a second Mac and the other 2 SL machines.
I can arrange to post any of these files on my FTP server.
Drive and Macbook were also tested with PTLE 8 recording 16 tracks @ 24/48 with no problem.
Hope this helps.
Dave
jims
Prenoob

Joined: 28/07/2010 18:08:42
Messages: 60
Offline

Presonus recommends Macbook-Studiolive-Drive

Have you tried that.

And have you tried a different FireWire cable other than what came in the SL box.

And I just noticed this... check it out if you havntl already...

http://forumsarchive.presonus.com/posts/list/6161.page

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 24/12/2010 03:01:15

swdamps
Prenoob

Joined: 19/05/2011 16:03:42
Messages: 20
Offline

hoping someone can help me with this:
i recorded 2 separate shows (Live) with a 16:4:2.
when i played the recordings back using either Capture or Studio one the tracks became out of sync. the first part of the recording is fine but towards the middle to the end they are way out of sync. 2 recordings ruined. both recording are about 45 mins long.
any help would be appreciated.
nlp187
Presonic

Joined: 31/03/2011 09:29:30
Messages: 170
Location: Waco, TX
Offline

You have a SC48 ..... o.O
aim icon
swdamps
Prenoob

Joined: 19/05/2011 16:03:42
Messages: 20
Offline

an SC 48 ??
samuel2230
Presonic

Joined: 15/05/2011 15:25:49
Messages: 108
Offline

I don't think one experience like that can ever define a board as "reliable" or not. Common, how many LS9s have we seen frozen out there, and Digi Profiles with dead mix cores? If you are about to say "not that many", well, your right, but I've definitely seen a few and those guys were likely upset as well. That doesn't mean those boards will stop showing up on riders all the sudden, it just means those people got the unlucky ones.

It happens, and it has to happen to somebody. I feel like getting one console and having it break down, and judging it immediately would be kind of like getting a lemon Honda Civic and deciding they must be "completely unreliable brand and model".
Jan-Arend Blok
Presonic
[Avatar]

Joined: 11/02/2011 22:41:25
Messages: 180
Location: Numansdorp, The Netherlands
Offline

I did a church musical last november with my new 24.4.2. Before this baby I had a 16.4.2 for one and a half year. We used 8 wireless mic's for solo's, 2 Bartlett floormics, 2 Shure floormics, two Shure PG 81's, one large diagraph mic for audience, and two stereo channels for CD and other audio. I recorded 120 Gb of audio during four performances with my MacBook Pro 2.16 (2006), we had audio going to the videoregistration, several points on and off stage, and to the church for broadcasting on sunday morning. I mixed all performances with my iPad sitting in the audience, using an Airport Express for the wireless connection. People sitting next to me where very surprised how all this was done without a single problem....... We still get compliments about the sound.... And no problems with the recordings. The only thing I found out, weeks before this musical, is that the FireWire 400 connector on my MBP seems to be broken. Because I also have a FireWire 800 connector on my MBP, I use this one now. Everything alright now from this point.
So, bjornson, have you checked this out?
I also never record on external drives, but only on the internal hard-drive, and copy my recordings later to an external drive for mixing and back-up.

Hope this helps

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 23/12/2011 13:22:17

SL24.4.2, Audiobox 22 VSL, Bluetube DP, 4 Eris E8 Studiomonitors, Faderport, Macbook Pro 2012, 2,3 Ghz i7, 8Gb, 750 Gb 7200rpm , iPad mini, iMac 2009 (2,4 Ghz), Airport Express, TP Link dual band router, StudioOne Pro V2.6, Capture, HP4, HK Audio PR115 subs + tops, Beyer N300, Blue Encore 300 and Encore 200 mics, Shure SM57, Jangus Music Wi IEM + wireless MM headworrn mics, Shure PG drummics, Bartlett floormics.
MarkusHassold
Presonoid
[Avatar]

Joined: 29/07/2010 09:28:03
Messages: 1170
Location: Germany/Stuttgart
Offline

bjornson wrote:On a more humorous note, Take a long look at the photo at the top of the page...
The "guitar player" on the left must of just heard the dropouts in his recording...
The "singer" with the while cap just gave up and is calling his girlfriend as the "studio owner" does the "swear and stare" at the screen,
silently regretting his purchase.
The "engineer" is throwing his hands up in disbelief , wondering why he ever trusted this gear to deliver a quality product to his client.
Perfect!
Now thats harsh!


But that's what the forum is for. Sort out peoples problems!
Presonus Firestudio Tube,
Presonus Firestudio Project
Universal Control 1.7.2
Presonus Inspire 1394, Faderport, Bluetube DP, HP 4, Bluemax.....
MacBookPro 4.1, 17" ( late 2008 ),
2,5 GHz Core2Duo, 4 GB RAM, MacOS 10.9.4
External harddisc (3.5" - 7200 rpm) with eSATA connection through a Sonnet express-card.
Presonus Studio One Pro 2.6.2
Celemony Melodyne editor 2.1.2
ts-12
Prenoob

Joined: 14/06/2011 05:31:13
Messages: 57
Location: MA
Offline

I can't think of anything more rude and annoying in the forums (or even in the real world) when someone is having a problem and someone comes and says "blah blah blah I never had such a problem"!

Even though I use SL as a main and recording board, and currently usually don't have problems with it (I had to upgrade to MacBook from Windows to be able to use firewire), I am still very nervous when I use it.
The thing I keep my attention the most thru the shows (and in the studio) is the FIREWIRE CABLE. Because Whenever it gets moves slightly the presonus SL or Capture either Lock Up, restart, become irresponsive etc.. I don't know why Presonus chose FireWire over USB, FIreWIre ports are very clumsy and thats why connection drops occur. Plus USB3 is becoming a common thing.

I'm hoping for SL Version 2 mixers with USB3 and USB2 compatibility.
(Cubase 6)
win7 x64: i7-920 p6t daw, 8gb ram,

KRK VXT 6, YAMAHA NS-10M Studio

StudioLive 16.4.2
(also: A & H 16:2, Mackie VLZ pro 1602, Soundcraft Spirit 24ch and 32ch)

DBX DriveRack PA+
Lexicon MPX400XL
Zoom h4n
Sennheiser e838's
Shure sm58's
Shure SLX beta 87a
Shure 87a
Shure SM7b
Sony utx-b2
Rode nt1-a

RAMSA mains and subs
JBL JRX series
Crown, Carvin, Mackie, amps




MikeRivers
Presonoid
[Avatar]

Joined: 28/07/2010 15:44:52
Messages: 2247
Offline

ts-12 wrote:I can't think of anything more rude and annoying in the forums (or even in the real world) when someone is having a problem and someone comes and says "blah blah blah I never had such a problem"!


To be fair, those sort of posts usually end with "Has anyone else had this problem?"

Really, it doesn't matter whether someone else has experienced the same thing or not, unless there's a known bug, confusing documentation, bad production run, or such. What matters is to find out exactly what the original poster's situation is in great detail and try to offer some helpful suggestions. Most of us do that.

I don't know why Presonus chose FireWire over USB, FIreWIre ports are very clumsy and thats why connection drops occur. Plus USB3 is becoming a common thing.


Well, for one thing, there are no USB 3 audio drivers yet, and darn few of them for USB 2 at the time the StudioLive was designed. Basically, it was that Firewire did the job, USB didn't, except for maybe RME who writes all their own drivers (and you pay for that!).

You do have a good point about the Firewire connector though. It isn't very robust, and to compound the problem, the StudioLive isn't tolerant of a momentary interruption with the computer connection. I'm sure that the next generation of StudioLive will have a different way of connecting to the computer than Firewire, if for no other reason than it's difficult to find computers these days that have a Firewire port at all. But this isn't going to be an upgrade to your mixer, it'll be a new mixer some time in the future.


I'm hoping for SL Version 2 mixers with USB3 and USB2 compatibility.


And I'm hoping for something better than that which will last more than a couple more years before the computer industry abandons it like they have with Firewire.
Visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com for some useful audio info
"It's much easier to look for a magic solution than it is to adapt to reality." - Allan Sloan
[WWW]
gadget69
Presonificator
[Avatar]

Joined: 21/09/2010 03:56:19
Messages: 5008
Location: Northern Mn
Offline

Seems to me, from a newbie point of view, that a LOT of problems are associated with computers that do NOT have integrated firewire ports but instead are using firewire express slot cards...or addons... most of which seem to be very problematic. I had many of these problems, have a no name card that works great (now that there isn't a port conflict with an audio device), but a card that specifically had the Texas Instruments chipset, does not work at all? It took a great deal of effort to clean up a pretty darn fast computer to begin with, so that it was fast enough for studio DAW.

It would seem that integrated firewire and smooth operation are synonymous?

My tower, with dedicated firewire output and NONE of the shortcomings of the mobile platform, has solved all the problems I was experiencing with the laptops.

So, will I still use my PC laptops for recording, yes, but probably not in mission critical operations...My weekly gig will now be done with the tower. Ya it's a more difficult thing, especially since I have to travel 50 miles one way each time, but to have something that I can run VSL, Capture, Studio 0ne, BPM studio, Soundforge and VNC all at once, and flawlessly AND didn't cost an arm and a leg...has my vote.
G
NOTE: If your having an issue, open a tech support ticket and bring the number here if you want help!
http://support.presonus.com

Tools:
OHCI tool and Latency mon:
http://forums.presonus.com/posts/list/11348.page

We, the few, that have done so much, for so long that now we can do everyything with nothing

dbx forum moderator

Lenova Ideapad Z565
Best connectivity Express card/firewire 2 port (400) that does NOT suggest having the TI chipset. (always worked great)
BYTECC Express card (400/800)07150358281

Asus/AMD processor tower. This setups just works on all firewire devices.

Belkin N450 dual band router, works with SL and Ai mixers
Studiolive 16:4:2
SL Ai24.4.2
ABUSB 1818VSL
Faderport
USB pre interface
Studio one Pro V2
LABsubs

loads of audio, and studio gear, and audiophile sound gear (gearslut)
[Email] [Yahoo!]
ruseim
Prenoob

Joined: 28/12/2011 09:19:48
Messages: 3
Offline

I own a SL24.4.2 and have done many recordings with that board without any problems.
The only problem i have discovered was on the first gig i recorded. I had multiple dropouts up to 1 sec. on the recording of an two hour gig using Capture. The board was used both FOH and recording. The problem was then caused by my computer. It was an old laptop with Intel centrino 1,7MHz processor and built in FW interface. The laptop was set up for music only. When i played back each track alone they had a lot less dropouts. I tried to find a solution and copied all files onto an external drive with much higher diskspeed, and then onto an computer with higher specs. This way i was able to rescue most of the recording. But still you can hear some of the dropouts. Listen to the recording in the link and you hear it. It sounds like small pop's.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/14809991/01%20SpookyJam.mp3

I have used the SL for one year now, and made a lot of recordings both for comerical available CD's and netservices or just so that the artists could listen to the performance, and maybe later decide if they would make an CD or so... And i have never had any of this problems again after switching to a higher spec. laptop.

I have used two different laptop's: Acer with Vista and external FW card and now recently an HP Probook with Win7 and internal FW. Both of this computers work perfect with the SL.
MikeRivers
Presonoid
[Avatar]

Joined: 28/07/2010 15:44:52
Messages: 2247
Offline

gadget69 wrote:
It would seem that integrated firewire and smooth operation are synonymous?


It may not be quite as simple as that when you look at all aspects. For one thing, it seem that most problems we hear about are from laptop computers, not full sized ones. And for another, if you want to buy a new laptop with an integral Firewire port, you'll be not only getting that port, you'll be getting Mac OS (probably Lion) and Mac consistency of build. There are a few companies - Apogee and Metric Halo come to mind immediately - that simply don't make products for anything but the Mac because they can test their hardware and software with what everyone else is using and be sure it works. You can't do that with a Windows computer.

A Windows laptop with an integral Firewire port or a Firewire adapter card that works with the motherboard and OS will probably be one that's a couple of years old. Nothing wrong with using an older computer, but most people prefer to buy new.


My tower, with dedicated firewire output and NONE of the shortcomings of the mobile platform, has solved all the problems I was experiencing with the laptops.


Another good data point. I have three tower computer, all old (Pentium 4) with aftermarket Firewire cards, that work with any Firewire audio device I've tried with them, including those from PreSonus. I'm running Windows XP, too. I have two laptops that have Cardbus slots, and two Firewire cards, one no-name and one Adaptec, that also work fine with any of my Firewire audio hardware. But if I went to Office Depot or even Micro Center to buy a new computer that I could take home and plug right in, I couldn't - no Firewire ports to be found there in at least the last six months, no ExpressCard slots either.


So, will I still use my PC laptops for recording, yes, but probably not in mission critical operations..


You don't consider recording to be mission critical?


.My weekly gig will now be done with the tower. Ya it's a more difficult thing, especially since I have to travel 50 miles one way each time, but to have something that I can run VSL, Capture, Studio 0ne, BPM studio, Soundforge and VNC all at once, and flawlessly AND didn't cost an arm and a leg...


It this a computer that you assembled yourself from off-the-shelf parts? Probably. It's bad enough that we have to be computer operators and maintainers as well as recording engineers (and most of us musicians, too). But having to research, choose, and assemble components to make a computer is beyond the skill of some, and beyond the interest of others. And because you can buy a high powered home-office computer for under $1,000 off the shelf people are reluctant to pay $1,500 or more to places like Rain Computers or maybe Sweetwater Sound in order to get a computer that they've tested with the hardware and software that you want to run.

I'd think that if you (anyone) really put your mind to it you could put together a mini-tower or one of the small ATX case computers that would be easier to carry than a full sized tower, but most people don't do that. And no sooner will someone post an article with a shopping list of parts that make a nicely packaged smooth working computer that you won't be able to purchase some or all of the parts any more.

I'm all for integrated systems so the drummer doesn't have to be the system engineer and system integrator. I could take a computer along with my console to do a remote multitrack recording, but I prefer to take my Mackie HDR24/96 and just plug it into the DB-25 direct outputs. It's not significant more difficult to carry than a laptop computer (no keyboard, mouse, or monitor needed if you're just recording). A JoeCo Black Box Recorder would be even easier to carry.

It's unfortunate (for the manufacturers, anyway) that the price point of highly featured mixing consoles because they can't afford to build them modular and expandable. I'm sure that all of us would have our dream custom console and they'd all be different. I don't care about remote control, but I want a meter bridge. Some people don't even want hardware faders. But if you're only going to build one model, you have to build it with something for everyone. And to get back to point of this reply, at the moment, for PreSonus, it means Firewire. You CAN buy an off-the-shelf computer that will work fine with the StudioLive. You just have to consider that to be part of the cost if what you want to do with it involves a computer.

Maybe NAMM 2013 will be the next big step. And then there will be something else to become obsolete too soon.

Visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com for some useful audio info
"It's much easier to look for a magic solution than it is to adapt to reality." - Allan Sloan
[WWW]
jakejam
Presonic
[Avatar]
Joined: 20/10/2010 04:40:02
Messages: 250
Location: MSP
Offline

Ironically, I too just had track dropout issues with the 16 at a local club. I recorded at home for a great deal of time with no issue, so I was a bit surprised.

When I forensically diagnosed the track dropouts, they came at somewhat "power intensive" moments during the performance and dropped for a couple seconds each.

We were running all the live gear on 2 10amp circuits, and the SL was on one of those circuits.

We just had a gig at the same place a couple weeks ago, and I confined power for the SL, Mac mini, and external drive to its own supply (run through a power conditioner).

That recording was clean.

So my question... Could it be as simple as a minor power deficit at load intensive times?
JAKE JACOBS

StudioLive 16.4.2
StudioLive 16.0.2
FireStudio Project
iPad 2 WiFi / 3g - SL Remote
Mac Mini A1347 (Dedicated) 10.6.8 - Snow Leopard
G-TECH G-DRIVE 1TB / 7200RPM
CAPTURE - Recording
REAPER DAW
[WWW]
gadget69
Presonificator
[Avatar]

Joined: 21/09/2010 03:56:19
Messages: 5008
Location: Northern Mn
Offline

I'm sure you would not be a bit surprised to know that the majority of all the venues we play have REALLY crappy power. Definitely an afterthought, and usually completely inadequate for audio, much less lighting.

I remember once setting the electrical panel on fire because they had used the conduit (flex in this case)as the ground return to the panel, problem was they had the ground and neutral reversed at the plug...the conduit wasn't attached very well at the panel, and when I fired up my 10,000 plus watt rig it started arching... paint lit on fire... I caught it pretty quickly, and fixed the problem, and we were only about 15 minutes late getting on... Jerkoffs docked the band...sheesh!

I know the dbx products have been tested to 90 volts and shouldn't "brown out". however, I wouldn't want to put it to the test. We always recommend a UPS backup for the older DRPA which has a nasty "turn on thump".

The venue I work at is a casino and I have a 200 amp service panel 5 feet from the amp rack. I have a Furman conditioner with a readout and I have never once seen the voltage drop a single volt... even during the big solar flare scare not a bit of movement on the meter... but that is the exception...the rule is BAD POWER.

I know my laptop will record glitch free, and will do a good job of it ..no dropouts. I have built a special harness to hold the express card and cable stable in the laptop. I followed the optimization setups, got help from Jon and others here to find the problems. Computers just don't make REALLY good audio recording platforms unless they are optimized for it. Off the shelf computers (laptops) are mostly number crunchers, they have unbalanced audio outputs, and are built for desktop multitasking.. not muiltitracking.

Looks like now we have one more thing to think about when portable...

As for me, I want it all...I NEED to be able to be mobile so I can get away from the crappy location the mixer is in, I want to be able to record, and have my DJ program running so I can run the breaks, and I want it running down the fire wire cable. I want to be able to send and return channels into Studio One for processing and return them to the mixer without a bunch of cables to mess with. Looks like I can do it all with the tower so I'm happy.

So, the mixer is now the first thing on and last thing off, right? (firewire protocol?)

Gadget

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 29/12/2011 16:27:35

NOTE: If your having an issue, open a tech support ticket and bring the number here if you want help!
http://support.presonus.com

Tools:
OHCI tool and Latency mon:
http://forums.presonus.com/posts/list/11348.page

We, the few, that have done so much, for so long that now we can do everyything with nothing

dbx forum moderator

Lenova Ideapad Z565
Best connectivity Express card/firewire 2 port (400) that does NOT suggest having the TI chipset. (always worked great)
BYTECC Express card (400/800)07150358281

Asus/AMD processor tower. This setups just works on all firewire devices.

Belkin N450 dual band router, works with SL and Ai mixers
Studiolive 16:4:2
SL Ai24.4.2
ABUSB 1818VSL
Faderport
USB pre interface
Studio one Pro V2
LABsubs

loads of audio, and studio gear, and audiophile sound gear (gearslut)
[Email] [Yahoo!]
 
Forum Index » StudioLive General Discussion
Go to: