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SL-24 pops and dies
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Jason.Harris
Presonoid

Joined: 01/10/2010 16:19:09
Messages: 1649
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
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Hi Dan,

If you would, Send me your Support Ticket # and I'll take a look at the situation and make sure things get handled up for you. I totally understand your frustration and I would like to take a look at all the data to see if there was some type of environmental issue at work. If it truly is a firmware problem, I can help move it to the dev team for resolution.

Cheers,

Jason

Monolithent
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Joined: 28/07/2010 18:47:25
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And if you're having any troubles making the ticket. Shoot me a PM with a number and I'll walk you through it.

Gotta get our case maker happy again. Still need ya to build me some stuff and I want the good buddy discount!!
http://support.presonus.com

Tallest guy in the Mod Squad with all his hair still on his head.

No I'm not a freaking pilot!! The Air Force won't let me have a suit with a zipper...or sometimes shoestrings.

My advice and suggestions should never be considered advice or suggestions. These are mostly insane ramblings of a poor aircraft mechanic who can, strangely enough, still hear.

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carcrusher
Prenoob
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Joined: 07/01/2011 22:19:16
Messages: 39
Location: Sanford, NC
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The Good: first SL24 is on it's way back.
The Bad: downloaded the 1.7 into my other SL24 that gave the same issues, just less often.
The UGLY: now it's frozen for good with the GR LED bar at full on any/all channels
selected, not a single channel passes audio.

This one will have to go back as well.
No computer connected, no firewire plugged in, running off a wall socket.
2 down, none to go...................
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Monolithent
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They'll get it back to right for ya crusher. They always do. Sucks that it's both of them.

How many shows worth of use do you have on them if you don't mind me asking. I'm trying to get a rough idea of the service life.
http://support.presonus.com

Tallest guy in the Mod Squad with all his hair still on his head.

No I'm not a freaking pilot!! The Air Force won't let me have a suit with a zipper...or sometimes shoestrings.

My advice and suggestions should never be considered advice or suggestions. These are mostly insane ramblings of a poor aircraft mechanic who can, strangely enough, still hear.

StudioLive 16.4.2, AudioBox 1818VSL, AudioBox 44VSL, Faderport, Digimax FS,, M-Audio Firewire 410
--MultiBoot System--
Win Vista 64/XP Pro/7 x86/7 x64 - Mac OSX Snow Leopard/Lion
Gigabyte motherboard--SYBA TI Firewire XIO2200A--i7 2600k Quad Core--16 GB DDR III--Custom 2U Rackmount--4 TB Raid (all internal SATA II)--19" Samsung HDMI LCD on pivoting VESA 1U Mount
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carcrusher
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Joined: 07/01/2011 22:19:16
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Location: Sanford, NC
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This one is the oldest, about 2 years old I think. I know Sept 2010 was it's first show
(Ying Yang Twins) and it's been faultless until now.................
As soon as they came out, I got this one.

The only common denominator to this problem is the computer.
Somewhere along the way a bug has gotten into the UC upgrades and
has gotten the system corrupt.

Unfortunately, that handed me my ass on this console.
I'm now "gun shy" as the 50 cal boys say and I'll flinch on the trigger I'm afraid
next time I'm up...................
All my employees are scared to death.
They saw me go down in flames on that show and want nothing to do with that.
They're all afraid it'll be their job or we'll lose a customer!

They're all bedded in on this Pro2 stuff and are screaming for a Pro1.
The little things sound like an XL-4!
I don't know what's gonna happen.
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rockstardave
Presonic
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Joined: 29/07/2010 01:02:17
Messages: 322
Location: buffalo ny
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whats an XL-4?

i've been scoping the Soundcraft Si Compact as my next move beyond the SL series. anyone know anything about those?
2xSL16 , KW-series , Macbook pro / ipad , fairly decent mics and DI boxes.
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gadget69
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Joined: 21/09/2010 03:56:19
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He's talking about Midas.. The XL4 is an analog console the Pro series are digital, the Pro 02 is upwards of $8000 the Pro 01 $^^^^

Had one out for a demo and didn't care all that much for it...or should I say my son did...I laid hands on it and didn't care much for the interface, as for sound, couldn't say but it's upwards of $10,000 as well.

Mikey likes the Midas Pro 02 and just had some dealings with it.. haven't had a chance to talk with him about it though.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 27/11/2012 01:11:21

NOTE: If your having an issue, open a tech support ticket and bring the number here if you want help!
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roly-m
Prenoob

Joined: 06/03/2012 22:58:09
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This information is downright frightening.
Presonus is selling desks with unstable soft/firm ware!!!

My boss bought a 24/4(he's into toys and gadgets) and I now refuse to use it.
I'll stick with the Allen & Heath GL 4800 for now.

I have already stated that the 24/4 desks don't have aux mutes and the que on the auxes is pre onboard 1/3 octave eq....not good.

The local theatre has a Vi6 and it is rock solid....so....it can be done.

Monolithent
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Ok, for all involved, I've never seen a firmware or driver update that has harmed the hardware on these mixers. Ever.

This is in no way intended as negative to carcrusher or anyone who has had a sstem failure. So please do not take anything I am about to sa personally.

This is speculation that it was the driver or firmware that has caused this. Consider that these are road used (though admittedly in some of the nicest cases a person can get) and over two years old without ever being sent for service. Components fail. And they fail more often in digital devices, due to their complexity, than analog.

I've had mixers costing 10 times and even 20 times the cost of these, and from major names as well, fail on me in the middle of a show or event. The StudioLive is not any different when you really boil it down. They can all fail, even analog units. It's just like a lightbulb. It may work this time but eventually its not going to anymore and we're just rolling the dice every time we hit the switch.

Please, let's not start a panic. I've seen no evidence that proves this is anything other than a case of hardware failure.

My mixers are older than his. Lived in cases not nearly as cushy. Had the crap beaten out of them. Had firmware flashed on them about a thousand times. Been test mules for Presonus to make sure a firmware flash isn't going to kill a mixer. Been disassembled and reassembled dozens of times via Skype to show someone 7,000 miles away how to replace a component themselves. And they still putter along every time I need them to. I know it is eventually going to happen to me. My mixers will eventually fail. But I've tested these drivers and firmware enough to say with a great deal of certainty that they are not the cause of this or any hardware failures.

carcrusher, If you'd like I can get someone to translate your repair report via email or PM if you'd like to see what actual components were changed out. And I understand that you want answers as to why this happened so you can prevent it in the future. But it doesn't appear to be anything but internal hardware failure.
http://support.presonus.com

Tallest guy in the Mod Squad with all his hair still on his head.

No I'm not a freaking pilot!! The Air Force won't let me have a suit with a zipper...or sometimes shoestrings.

My advice and suggestions should never be considered advice or suggestions. These are mostly insane ramblings of a poor aircraft mechanic who can, strangely enough, still hear.

StudioLive 16.4.2, AudioBox 1818VSL, AudioBox 44VSL, Faderport, Digimax FS,, M-Audio Firewire 410
--MultiBoot System--
Win Vista 64/XP Pro/7 x86/7 x64 - Mac OSX Snow Leopard/Lion
Gigabyte motherboard--SYBA TI Firewire XIO2200A--i7 2600k Quad Core--16 GB DDR III--Custom 2U Rackmount--4 TB Raid (all internal SATA II)--19" Samsung HDMI LCD on pivoting VESA 1U Mount
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carcrusher
Prenoob
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Joined: 07/01/2011 22:19:16
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Location: Sanford, NC
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Well, an XL-4 is the absolute best sounding "analogue" (as the Brits would say) console ever built for live sound. Period.
It was the first to have fader automation so live engineers could recall scenes for their songs. Desks were so large then it was
hairy getting from one end to the other quickly. I mixed on Big Mick Hughes' XL-4 one time. Near religious experience that was.

Midas stuff:
A Pro2 Tour Package is about 25G's from Sweetwater. Road case & Digital stage box/snake included. 56 in/27 out.
A Pro1 Tour Package is about 10G's from Sweetwater. Road case, 24 analog in, 27 outs, case included.

Both have latency correction. That's a big deal to me.
I've got 4 PA's. 2 are very high resolution, a NEXO Alpha point source and an EV Xlc line array with Lake controllers.
The other 2 are no slouch, a EV QRX rig (really good side fills on the big rig) and some powered Mackie 1232's (good drum box).
If there is an issue with a board, you'll hear it.
I've heard guys with an SC48 on my rig that load up the lead VOX mic with plug-ins galore.................the result?
Sounded like a phaser on my PA because there was sooooomuch latency he was about 10ms behind the rest of the band!
And he was gained up so much, the rest of the band came pouring thru his mic 10ms later. That's happened twice now. No more.
Sounded like crap! FOH engineers just smiled and mixed away...............I suggested they fix that, and they say they don't even hear it! WTF?
Idiots................or, what I suspect, they're hearing is gone from 400 to 2K. Happens a lot nowadays.

I like a console that sounds really good right-off-the-bat. That means I don't work as hard. Everything fat/warm and easy to place in the mix.
I mixed on a A&H 2800 last week and I really had to work at it (hi-pass/channel strip/FOH EQ) to warm the vocal up to my satisfaction.
I just drop a Beta58 on the guy and it freakin' soars on the Midas boards. Of course, your mileage may vary.............

I make a living doing this and for the last 23 years of my life I've poured everything I've got into this business. I've never had an analog console die on me in a show. I've had PSU's die in soundcheck, checked for shorts (loose multi, tightened) switched to the second, and we
went on with the show. I know all about old electronics, bouncing gear down the road (that's why I build my own cases) and all the pitfalls
of live audio.

I don't think the PreSonus platform is fatally flawed, there is a bug in my Mac and in the updates I've loaded on these 2 consoles, probably.
The problem is, I've scrubbed this thing clean (my MacBook Pro) and started fresh. But, the bug remains in the boards. Even a factory reset has no cleaning effect on the firmware. There has been no "field fix" given to me. These 2 boards are going back to Baton Rouge.
I just know we need to find this, so this does not happen to anyone else.



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 27/11/2012 15:25:45

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Monolithent
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I agree with you that we do need to find it. And I've had similar instances of failures on just about everthing.

I completely understand about your reputation. I've been doing this almost twenty years myself and I know I'm only as good as my last show and the reliability of the gear I bring along.

There is not a field fix due to the level of tech in these things. It has to go on a bench to be troubleshot. It's the nature of digital.

Sending it back to BR is the best option. Let them figure it out. catalog it, analyze it, and figure out how to get us better components. If they see a trend, they will act on it. That's what they did when we had the old power supply problems. They got enough pieces to figure out what was common and upgraded it.

I still honestly do not believe the problem is in the software. I run the same rig you do with multiple different versions of the drivers and firmware and have not had this happen.

They'll get it fixed for you and it'll be good as new. If not then I will do everthing within my power to get it corrected.
http://support.presonus.com

Tallest guy in the Mod Squad with all his hair still on his head.

No I'm not a freaking pilot!! The Air Force won't let me have a suit with a zipper...or sometimes shoestrings.

My advice and suggestions should never be considered advice or suggestions. These are mostly insane ramblings of a poor aircraft mechanic who can, strangely enough, still hear.

StudioLive 16.4.2, AudioBox 1818VSL, AudioBox 44VSL, Faderport, Digimax FS,, M-Audio Firewire 410
--MultiBoot System--
Win Vista 64/XP Pro/7 x86/7 x64 - Mac OSX Snow Leopard/Lion
Gigabyte motherboard--SYBA TI Firewire XIO2200A--i7 2600k Quad Core--16 GB DDR III--Custom 2U Rackmount--4 TB Raid (all internal SATA II)--19" Samsung HDMI LCD on pivoting VESA 1U Mount
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lifegatesound
Presonic
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Joined: 15/07/2012 05:49:25
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roly-m wrote:This information is downright frightening.
Presonus is selling desks with unstable soft/firm ware!!!

My boss bought a 24/4(he's into toys and gadgets) and I now refuse to use it.
I'll stick with the Allen & Heath GL 4800 for now.

I have already stated that the 24/4 desks don't have aux mutes and the que on the auxes is pre onboard 1/3 octave eq....not good.

The local theatre has a Vi6 and it is rock solid....so....it can be done.


I can't see any advantage to being able to cue the Auxes post GEQ. The onboard GEQs are used for equalizing speakers; they don't seem to have been intended as channel EQs or as inserts. I use them the same as I would use an external GEQ (prior to a power amplifier) to EQ the mains and stage speakers.

Since this is apparently their intended use, why would you want the ability to cue them?

Frank

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 27/11/2012 22:40:59

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roly-m
Prenoob

Joined: 06/03/2012 22:58:09
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lifegatesound

When you cue up a channel, you want to hear the EQ on the channel.....yes?

When you listen to the mix at FOH you hear the EQ....yes?

Why would you want to listen to a monitor mix without hearing the 1/3 octave EQ on the mix you have cued up?

You can't make realistic decisions about the channel EQs of the monitor mixer without hearing the 1/3 octave EQ on the mix you are listening to.
I am talking about a separate monitor console, not monitors from FOH with the auxes set pre fader and pre EQ.

The monitor tech has a cue wedge that is matched with the wedges on the deck, but, his wedge has no EQ inserted, or in line.
With a post EQ cue, or solo, whatever you want to call it, the tech has a better representation of what the performer is hearing.
It's not perfect because the tech is not out on the deck hearing all the other stuff....amps, adjacent mixes, the acoustic sound of the drums, etc, but, what you hear is closer to what the performer is hearing versus not hearing the1/3 octave EQ on a mix.


Sorry for the hijack folks.
lifegatesound
Presonic
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Joined: 15/07/2012 05:49:25
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roly-m wrote:
lifegatesound

When you cue up a channel, you want to hear the EQ on the channel.....yes?

When you listen to the mix at FOH you hear the EQ....yes?

Why would you want to listen to a monitor mix without hearing the 1/3 octave EQ on the mix you have cued up?

You can't make realistic decisions about the channel EQs of the monitor mixer without hearing the 1/3 octave EQ on the mix you are listening to.
I am talking about a separate monitor console, not monitors from FOH with the auxes set pre fader and pre EQ.

The monitor tech has a cue wedge that is matched with the wedges on the deck, but, his wedge has no EQ inserted, or in line.
With a post EQ cue, or solo, whatever you want to call it, the tech has a better representation of what the performer is hearing.
It's not perfect because the tech is not out on the deck hearing all the other stuff....amps, adjacent mixes, the acoustic sound of the drums, etc, but, what you hear is closer to what the performer is hearing versus not hearing the1/3 octave EQ on a mix.


Sorry for the hijack folks.


Ahhh, I understand now. Thanks for the clarification. I didn't realize that you were using a separate monitor console, Roly. I also didn't realize that you were using a matching cue monitor wedge. I assumed that you were using headphones, and I couldn't understand how hearing speaker EQ's over headphones would yield much usable information.

I use our FOH SL2442 set to "Pre2" which is post dynamics and EQ, but Pre-fader, to feed our 5 monitor feeds. During a performance, I use headphones to monitor these Aux feeds, mostly for the purpose of setting relative stage levels and such. However, usually these are already set prior to a performance.

I really like the SL Remote iPad app for the SL2442. I now can walk about on the stage, prior to performance, making monitor speaker adjustments while the group is practicing. I can hear exactly what the musicians are hearing, directly in their environment. Hence, I have no need to hear the Aux EQs back at the mixer.

I use GEQs only to balance frequency response on a cabinet, or to tone-shape a cabinet. Once I set those (prior to a performance), they are set. I never change the GEQs on the Auxes during a performance.

To EQ instruments and vocals, I use channel EQs alone. Of course I can hear these just fine over our monitoring headphones when cueing channels.

Best wishes,

Frank
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ghasenbeck
Presonus Employee
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Joined: 15/09/2010 16:04:31
Messages: 31
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Carcrusher,

Are you still having issues? I have sent you several PM's trying to reach out to you to see if you are still seeing this issue. We would like to help you as well. If you would please check your PM's and get back with me.

 
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