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Firestudio Project gives MIDI lag with External Synthesizer
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token
Prenoob

Joined: 02/07/2011 13:40:21
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Sorry for the double post (I also posted in Studio One section) but I am not sure if this is a hardware or software issue....

I have a Firestudio Project connected to my PC. I have also connected an external synthesizer to the Firestudio Project using MIDI cables and the relevant L+R audio connnections. I am also using Studio One as my DAW.

The external syntheizer acts as my MIDI controller keyboard and it can play all VSTs just fine. I have set up the synthezier in Studio One as firstly a keyboard that receives and sends MIDI data on all channels ('Synth Cntrl'), and I have also set it up as an instrument which receives and sends MIDI data on all channels ('Synth Instr').

I am experiencing MIDI lag when I want to use my external synthesizer as an instrument which is making it impossible to record tracks properly. On the instrument track I have set the 'Synth Cntrl' as the input and set 'Synth Instr' as the actual instrument to use. The monitor and record buttons are on and when I play the keyboard I am getting sound from the synth but there is a lot of lag.

I have tried to create an audio track to monitor the output of the syth but when I do this the audio track doesn't pick up any audio! I turned off the monitor button on the instrument track and turned it on on the audio track but no sound. If I turn the monitor button back on the instrument track, then I get audio but in duplicate because suddenly the audio track picks up the audio.

Before I had the Firestudio Project, I connected my synth directly to the computer through the 'gaming' port using a MIDI converter and was using Cubase. I never had any MIDI lag problems then, so I don't know if the problem lies with the Firestudio Project or Studio One.

I have turned off 'local control' on the synth but this makes no difference as such. If I have local control on, then I don't get any MIDI lag (naturally). But if I have it off as you would expect for this kind of set-up, then the MIDI lag is bad.
trvqnyc
Presonic
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token wrote:Sorry for the double post (I also posted in Studio One section) but I am not sure if this is a hardware or software issue....

I have a Firestudio Project connected to my PC. I have also connected an external synthesizer to the Firestudio Project using MIDI cables and the relevant L+R audio connnections. I am also using Studio One as my DAW.

The external syntheizer acts as my MIDI controller keyboard and it can play all VSTs just fine. I have set up the synthezier in Studio One as firstly a keyboard that receives and sends MIDI data on all channels ('Synth Cntrl'), and I have also set it up as an instrument which receives and sends MIDI data on all channels ('Synth Instr').

I am experiencing MIDI lag when I want to use my external synthesizer as an instrument which is making it impossible to record tracks properly. On the instrument track I have set the 'Synth Cntrl' as the input and set 'Synth Instr' as the actual instrument to use. The monitor and record buttons are on and when I play the keyboard I am getting sound from the synth but there is a lot of lag.

I have tried to create an audio track to monitor the output of the syth but when I do this the audio track doesn't pick up any audio! I turned off the monitor button on the instrument track and turned it on on the audio track but no sound. If I turn the monitor button back on the instrument track, then I get audio but in duplicate because suddenly the audio track picks up the audio.

Before I had the Firestudio Project, I connected my synth directly to the computer through the 'gaming' port using a MIDI converter and was using Cubase. I never had any MIDI lag problems then, so I don't know if the problem lies with the Firestudio Project or Studio One.

I have turned off 'local control' on the synth but this makes no difference as such. If I have local control on, then I don't get any MIDI lag (naturally). But if I have it off as you would expect for this kind of set-up, then the MIDI lag is bad.


If you want to monitor the Triton through the Project without using an audio track in S1, here's how I do it with the XP80 with the local OFF:

With S1 not running, make sure you are getting sound from the Triton using the Project's driver to see the level meters working. Play some keys or a saved sequence in the Triton and also adjust the latency to 512 samples or lower.

Once you've done that, start S1 with a blank song, then set up an instrument track for the Triton. Click the monitor button on the track. You should still hear the Triton without using the audio track.

If you want to use the audio track to monitor the Triton, mute the inputs on the FSP's driver screen. The "lag" you were getting was prolly the audio latency being set too large. 1024 and upwards is best for mixing. 512 and lower is best for MIDI recording and recording hardware synths as audio.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 04/08/2011 23:28:16

Troy Valentine
"Any day is a great day to make music".
Sound Cloud page on the way!!!

Hardware:
Roland XP80, Kurzweil PC2R, Yamaha SW1000XG, BCF2000, Novation Nocturn (not the kb), Korg padKontrol, Edirol UM-3x MIDI interface, Firestudio Project

Software:
Presonus Studio One 2.x (32 bit), FL Studio 10.x, a nice collection of VST's, including Kjaerhus (RIP??) Classic FX

Custom built PC with ASUS M3N78 Mobo, Win 7 64bit, 4GB RAM, 3HDDs

Dell Lappie INS 1520 (Win 7 32-bit), Novation SL MK II 61, Presonus Firebox
token
Prenoob

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Thanks for the info, it has helped at least record the audio track correctly. Nowhere does it say to turn off the inputs in the Universal Control when recording audio (at least to my memory).

However the lag is still there, even using an audio track to monitor. Its not significant, but definitley there and when I'm trying to do things like program hi-hats, they're never in sync and messing it up. I'm pretty sure now that its the Presonus Firestudio so I will get a Tascam or M-Audio USB interface next time and hopefully it should work?
Motoko
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token wrote:Thanks for the info, it has helped at least record the audio track correctly. Nowhere does it say to turn off the inputs in the Universal Control when recording audio (at least to my memory).

However the lag is still there, even using an audio track to monitor. Its not significant, but definitley there and when I'm trying to do things like program hi-hats, they're never in sync and messing it up. I'm pretty sure now that its the Presonus Firestudio so I will get a Tascam or M-Audio USB interface next time and hopefully it should work?


What latency settings are you running with?
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token
Prenoob

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In setting up audio devices I put the sample size to 256.

But in the main Universal Control it says buffer size 512. If I make it less than 512 then things don't sound so good.

Am I doing it correctly?
Motoko
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token wrote:In setting up audio devices I put the sample size to 256.

But in the main Universal Control it says buffer size 512. If I make it less than 512 then things don't sound so good.

Am I doing it correctly?


Well, the latency / buffer might be what's causing the delay between what you trigger and what you hear. Usually you set the buffer as low as possible when doing recording. I usually have it at 64 or 32 when recording, and then increase it again when mixing to 256 / 512 or sometimes even 1024.
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PreSonus FireStudio Mobile || PreSonus AudioBox 44 VSL || Alesis Active M1 MkII || CME XKey || NI Maschine

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token
Prenoob

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Right I'll give that go then.

I wonder why I'm getting this issue with an audio interface but not when I used to have a simple MidiMan MIDI adapter for the gaming/joystick port on my old PC?
trvqnyc
Presonic
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token wrote:Right I'll give that go then.

I wonder why I'm getting this issue with an audio interface but not when I used to have a simple MidiMan MIDI adapter for the gaming/joystick port on my old PC?


Token, could you post your PC's internal components (mobo, processor, HD's, etc)? Also, you may want to the DPC latency checker. This will let you know about your system's capabilities including the Firewire chipset your using with the FSProject.
Troy Valentine
"Any day is a great day to make music".
Sound Cloud page on the way!!!

Hardware:
Roland XP80, Kurzweil PC2R, Yamaha SW1000XG, BCF2000, Novation Nocturn (not the kb), Korg padKontrol, Edirol UM-3x MIDI interface, Firestudio Project

Software:
Presonus Studio One 2.x (32 bit), FL Studio 10.x, a nice collection of VST's, including Kjaerhus (RIP??) Classic FX

Custom built PC with ASUS M3N78 Mobo, Win 7 64bit, 4GB RAM, 3HDDs

Dell Lappie INS 1520 (Win 7 32-bit), Novation SL MK II 61, Presonus Firebox
token
Prenoob

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I keep getting the Windows blue screen of death nowadays with an error of "IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL"

Frankly I can't be bothered with the hassle of Firewire and am selling my Firestudio Project and will get something else USB based. I'm not sure whether to wait for USB 3.0 devices or not, because I hear that USB 2.0 has enough bandwith for most audio projets.

My PC specs are:

AMD Phenom x4 9550 2.20GHz
4GB RAM
500GB Hard Drive
TI Chipset Firewire Card

I think the PC spec is okay and not the problem. I heard that PCI Audio Interfaces are the best for low latency but theres hardly any on the market.
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RME would be where I'd look for PCI based.

IRQ not less or equal is usually an IRQ conflict.
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token
Prenoob

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I found a great new USB audio interface from Roland called the Quad Capture. For my needs it looks perfect.

I was told by my local music store that I may be suffering these MIDI latency problems due to my computer having a 3rd party Firewire card even though its a Ti chipset. He said its probably best to just use a USB audio interface that was designed for my OS (Win 7) and uses the propietary USB port connected directly to the motherboard.

I hope this solves my problems because the PCI card options are very limited and I'm unsure if it'll work well or not.
trvqnyc
Presonic
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token wrote:I found a great new USB audio interface from Roland called the Quad Capture. For my needs it looks perfect.

I was told by my local music store that I may be suffering these MIDI latency problems due to my computer having a 3rd party Firewire card even though its a Ti chipset. He said its probably best to just use a USB audio interface that was designed for my OS (Win 7) and uses the propietary USB port connected directly to the motherboard.

I hope this solves my problems because the PCI card options are very limited and I'm unsure if it'll work well or not.


Check the manufacturer of the firewire card you have; most third-party cards are made on brown pcb's; meaning that they are cheaply made. I have a LaCie card in my PC, but Presonus has a list of compatible cards from Syba, SIIG and others. However, the USB devices have gotten better in terms of functionality to rival the firewire cards.
Troy Valentine
"Any day is a great day to make music".
Sound Cloud page on the way!!!

Hardware:
Roland XP80, Kurzweil PC2R, Yamaha SW1000XG, BCF2000, Novation Nocturn (not the kb), Korg padKontrol, Edirol UM-3x MIDI interface, Firestudio Project

Software:
Presonus Studio One 2.x (32 bit), FL Studio 10.x, a nice collection of VST's, including Kjaerhus (RIP??) Classic FX

Custom built PC with ASUS M3N78 Mobo, Win 7 64bit, 4GB RAM, 3HDDs

Dell Lappie INS 1520 (Win 7 32-bit), Novation SL MK II 61, Presonus Firebox
 
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