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48khz/44.1khz mismatch
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ts-12
Prenoob

Joined: 14/06/2011 05:31:13
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Ever since I got 16.4.2, I started having weird issues I guess its related to SampleRate mismatch, I always work in 44.1Khz and set audio driver to 44.1khz but i guess StudioLive or Universal Control or Cubase at some point confuses to 48khz somehow because many times I reopen a session and all the audio file are pitched down so i have to fool cubase to convert them to 44.1 even thou the project is already set to 44.1, i do this by changing the setting of a project to 48khz, cubase just changes the settings, than i change it back to 44.1 and than cubase asks me to convert all file to the new sample rate.
this is weird because at first everything is ok, but after re-opnening the project all the audio files are pitched down, and it happens so quick, the 44.1 to 48 software confusion or conversion, but changing all the waves back to 44.1 takes such a long time.
Right now I'm converting 2+ hours of 18 tracks of recording of a concert and it says "time remaining 1 hour 22 minutes"..
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Monolithent
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This has been traced to windows sounds being turned on in the OS. If it tried to make a noise during recording it has been known to set things to windows default 16 bit and hence jack your recordings.

Make sure to turn windows sounds off and see if that helps.
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Tallest guy in the Mod Squad with all his hair still on his head.

No I'm not a freaking pilot!! The Air Force won't let me have a suit with a zipper...or sometimes shoestrings.

My advice and suggestions should never be considered advice or suggestions. These are mostly insane ramblings of a poor aircraft mechanic who can, strangely enough, still hear.

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ts-12
Prenoob

Joined: 14/06/2011 05:31:13
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I have windows sounds off.
I am 99% sure I was recording at 44.1khz, but it was on Mac. (in studio i use pc)
Maybe Fantom-G is messing things up, because it was apearing in the windows playback devices, so now I disabled Fantom-G.
now importing all the tracks again, I hope the mismatch didn't happen between Mac and PC.
(Cubase 6)
win7 x64: i7-920 p6t daw, 8gb ram,

KRK VXT 6, YAMAHA NS-10M Studio

StudioLive 16.4.2
(also: A & H 16:2, Mackie VLZ pro 1602, Soundcraft Spirit 24ch and 32ch)

DBX DriveRack PA+
Lexicon MPX400XL
Zoom h4n
Sennheiser e838's
Shure sm58's
Shure SLX beta 87a
Shure 87a
Shure SM7b
Sony utx-b2
Rode nt1-a

RAMSA mains and subs
JBL JRX series
Crown, Carvin, Mackie, amps




Monolithent
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Keep us posted on your results. The Fantom could be causing it but I'm not really for certain.
http://support.presonus.com

Tallest guy in the Mod Squad with all his hair still on his head.

No I'm not a freaking pilot!! The Air Force won't let me have a suit with a zipper...or sometimes shoestrings.

My advice and suggestions should never be considered advice or suggestions. These are mostly insane ramblings of a poor aircraft mechanic who can, strangely enough, still hear.

StudioLive 16.4.2, AudioBox 1818VSL, AudioBox 44VSL, Faderport, Digimax FS,, M-Audio Firewire 410
--MultiBoot System--
Win Vista 64/XP Pro/7 x86/7 x64 - Mac OSX Snow Leopard/Lion
Gigabyte motherboard--SYBA TI Firewire XIO2200A--i7 2600k Quad Core--16 GB DDR III--Custom 2U Rackmount--4 TB Raid (all internal SATA II)--19" Samsung HDMI LCD on pivoting VESA 1U Mount
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yettibrad
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I've had this issue before as well. Usually happens when the power goes out and I have to reconnect the mixer via Universal Control. Anyone know how to correct a pitched down track in Studio One?
Brad Kinder
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hsfinlayson
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This has been addressed in many previous threads.

I am also on the Apple/Mac platform and have encountered this.

While I have not taken the time to methodically troubleshoot the "HOWS" and "WHYS" of this issue, I can say that I've noticed it boils down to (for me) Capture not accurately reflecting the incoming stream. I can SET capture to 44.1 but if UC is set to 48, then your tracks will actually BE at 48... even though Capture stamps the source files (incorrectly) at 44.1

So - basically, before every gig that I am recording, I make SURE I go to UC first and set it to 44.1 and THEN launch Capture.

With that order, I have not had issues - as a matter of fact, my LAST gig, I was in a hurry and didn't do that, and the same thing happened... I dropped my Capture source files into a logic template I have setup for 44.1 and the files were too slow - so I simply had to bump-up my Logic project to 48 to compensate. Live and learn.

It WOULD be nice if Capture was capable of changing to whatever the incoming stream is automatically and CORRECTLY tagging the file... but it's not a deal-breaker for me.
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PhilG
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I get this 50% of the time - happens in S1 or capture so I think its a UC issue

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vmxgroove
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I think you need to set UC to 48khz for the best recording quality. Correct me if I'm wrong, but 44.1 is old school. I think many people have moved to 48 because many DAWs now support it native. If you are working in a 64 bit operating system, bumping it up to 48 will give you cleaner tracks. I personally see a major quality increase at 48khz, but then again I'm doing HD video and audio recordings of full bands. Maybe it's just that 48 is better for video sync and quality.
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The source of the problem on Mac may be similar -- it may be that something happens in the background (like a system sound) plays and the sample rate gets changed. There are a lot of things that could potentially trigger an alert sound.

HS's method is the one I use, and it seems to help prevent this problem, although I'd be very careful to disable all non-required processes as possible to be sure it doesn't inconvenience you again.

I know PreSonus are aware of this being an ongoing issue for some users, and I believe they are trying to get the bottom of it so it can be addressed in an update. In the meantime, at least there is a workaround, albeit a somewhat time-consuming one (although with the speed of today's computers it isn't really too awful to do the conversion -- just imagine trying to convert all of those massive session files on your old computer system from 15 years ago -- you'd be talking days, not hours to render it).
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roblof
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vmxgroove wrote:I think you need to set UC to 48khz for the best recording quality. Correct me if I'm wrong, but 44.1 is old school. I think many people have moved to 48 because many DAWs now support it native. If you are working in a 64 bit operating system, bumping it up to 48 will give you cleaner tracks. I personally see a major quality increase at 48khz, but then again I'm doing HD video and audio recordings of full bands. Maybe it's just that 48 is better for video sync and quality.


For video, 48kHz is for various reasons the best option.

However for CD's and like 44.1kHz is the best option. The reason is that you otherwise need to sample-rate convert 48-->44.1 and mathematically this isn't a lossless operation and will in some way alter the recording. It's more or less a small timestretch that is applied for this and depending on the algorithm being used the final result will differ one way or another.....
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MikeRivers
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vmxgroove wrote:I think you need to set UC to 48khz for the best recording quality. Correct me if I'm wrong, but 44.1 is old school.


OK, you're wrong. As long as we have CDs, we'll have 44.1 kHz sample rate. Maybe you think CDs are old school, and maybe you're right, but people are still making them.

Video work is usually done at 48 kHz because that's the sample rate that the people who designed digital video cameras picked, rather than a funny number like 44.1 (which has to do with the frame rate and design of television receivers). For a properly designed digitally recording system, there's no practical difference in sound quality or processing ability between 44.1 and 48 kHz.


I think many people have moved to 48 because many DAWs now support it native. If you are working in a 64 bit operating system, bumping it up to 48 will give you cleaner tracks.


Wrong again, at least in theory. DAWs have always supported 48 kHz as long as there have been real DAWs, nothing "native" about it. There are some reasons why a 64-bit operating system, given the appropriate software, can give you better results than a 32-bit system, but the largest number that the computer can count to (that's what 64-bit means in this context) has nothing to do with how clean your tracks sound.


I personally see a major quality increase at 48khz, but then again I'm doing HD video and audio recordings of full bands. Maybe it's just that 48 is better for video sync and quality.

What it means is that you don't have to convert the sample rate when synchronizing the audio with video. Eliminating one step, particularly if it's one that's done badly, can certainly make things sound better. But there are some pretty transparent sample rate conversion algorithms around today, some thanks to 64-bit processing.

So you have a combination of things that nets you an improvement in sound quality, none of which is fundamentally related to the 44.1 vs. 48 kHz sample rate.


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vmxgroove
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Hahahahah, Hogwash! 48 is way better....
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MikeRivers
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vmxgroove wrote:Hahahahah, Hogwash! 48 is way better....


Terribly sorry about your 44.1. You should really get it fixed, unless you just have no reason to use it, which you might not if you only do audio for video.
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steve griffiths
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vmxgroove wrote:Hahahahah, Hogwash! 48 is way better....


Think you missed the point - Mike explained quite clearly, that if you work at 48K for video you are working 48K end to end with so conversions taking place. This is a reasonable basis for suggesting that 48K is better - for video. The same scenario applied to 44.1K. If you are recording for CD production, there is a definite argument for staying at 44.1K end to end. Whether the final product sounds better at 44.1K or 48K is totally irrelevant - if it is on video it will be 48K, on CD it will be 44.1K.

"Hogwash" may be a tad harsh for the kind, gentle folk here, most of whom know of what they speak.

Cheers..Grif
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MikeRivers
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The point that I didn't make, because I didn't figure he'd believe me, is that the only thing that increasing the sample rate (assuming that's the only thing you do) does is increase the limit to the high frequency response. It doesn't increase the resolution, it doesn't lower the noise, it doesn't reduce distortion. It's doubtful (though I haven't tried a double-blind test) that even dogs can tell the difference between music that's band limited to 22 kHz or 24 kHz.

Now, if we were talking about a Panasonic 3700 DAT recorder, yeah, 48 kHz does sound better than 44.1 kHz, but that's because it was originally designed to work only at 48 kHz. Then they discovered that people wanted it to work at 44.1 kHz so they could make a "perfect clone" of a CD. They changed the input and output filters to accommodate the lower sampling frequency and they did it wrong. The phase response of the 22 kHz filters is screwy, making a 44.1 kHz recording sound worse than a 48 kHz recording even if there's nothing above 10 kHz going in. But that was 1990 or so. We've learned a few things about digital audio recording since then.

If StudioLive users have found that running the mixer at 48 kHz really sounds better than running it at 44.1 kHz, speak up and describe the differences. And tell PreSonus to fix the problem. There's no reason for one to be "way better" than the other.
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